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not a very nice subject i know and deeply upsetting but my question is, is he insane or not and if hes not WTF has the world come too and whos to
blame if anyone ??
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Doesnt matter IMO, he did the crime and should be in prison (or high secure hospital) for the rest of his life.
Some people are just a bit f***ed up, hes one of them. No one to blame, no computer game made him do it, just a very twisted outlook on life.
If you can plan and carry out a series of attacks like Breivik has done then you are clearly not insane. He is capable of logical thought and
therefore should be sent to jail for life (and I mean life).
Not sure that allowing him to spread his gospel through a trial is a good idea. Just put him in a hole and leave him there....
As above it is irrelevant.
He is dangerous, and will always be so.
Hopefully he will humiliate himself during the trial. And they need to keep him handcuffed behind his back to stop his clenched fist salute. Sod it if
he is uncomfortable. He should not be allowed to use his trial to glorify his deeds.
What is the legal definition of sanity?
Stretch his neck
Lethal injection
Electric chair
Firing squad
The choice is yours as they say.
There is absolutely no doubt of his guilt - no ifs, buts or maybe's - he did it.
So the bleeding heart liberals don't have much to go on with this one.
He forfeitted his right to life when he started blowing up and shooting innocent people
Sane
Sane like Hitler... Just a very warped view of reality when compared to the rest of us. He is clearly a very intelligent person, and had gone to a lot
of trouble to plan and carry out these heanous crimes. It wasn't 'voices' that told him to do it - he has an incredibly strong set of
beliefs, that he acted upon in a calculated way.
I think he should be in solitary confinement forever, with just Al Jazeera TV to keep him company...! Unfortunately, I suspect that would be seen as
'a violation of his human right'..... 
[Edited on 17/4/12 by twybrow]
I believe he is sane, but with the same delusions as the Hitler/Gadaffi type of creature
And should be eliminated
I do not get why anyone would want to kill another person for any reason
There may be an occasion when someone needs to be stopped from an attack, in self defence, or to protect another person in a direct attack, but the
intention of murder, does not spring to my head very easily
steve
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
And should be eliminated
I do not get why anyone would want to kill another person for any reason
That is splitiing hairs, but i get your point
Is executing someone for heanous crimes murder ?
I personley think not, more like protecting the "normal civilisation"
Why exectue him, and make him itno a martyr for any other extremisit who share his views? His sufferering then ends - leave him to reflect for the next 30 years - that will hurt him far more.
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
...There may be an occasion when someone needs to be stopped from an attack, in self defence, or to protect another person in a direct attack...
steve
It seems unlikely his defence team will be able get an insane ruling on him. He's also stated already that being ruled insane would be the most
terrible sentence imaginable (or words to that effect) meaning (to me) that he was in willful control of his actions.
Listening on Radio4 news to an interview with the state attorney (or similar) she made the important point that as a civilised nation and society they
must try him in accordance with their laws - something I'm in full agreement with however bad his crimes.
The most likely outcome is a life sentence with no release. The for his own safety he will probably have to be held in solitary confinement - for
life. The rest of your life locked up on your own to reflect upon your actions seems the worst punishment he'll face
as I understand things, Norwegian law only allows a maximum prison sentence of 21 years and the defence team are trying to prove his is sane, so
he'll be out in 21 years!!
The prosecution are trying for the insanity verdict because they can then lock him away in an institution for ever.
[Edited on 17/4/12 by liam.mccaffrey]
No idea... but I do know that he needs to be locked away until the day he dies.
Revoke his passport and deport him to Saudi Arabia!
imo he is clearly insane, anyone able to kill that many people in the calm manner he did it in cannot be deemd sane surely? all irrelevant though
either way i cant see him seeing the light of day ever again.
quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
as I understand things, Norwegian law only allows a maximum prison sentence of 21 years and the defence team are trying to prove his is sane, so he'll be out in 21 years!!
[Edited on 17/4/12 by liam.mccaffrey]
quote:
Originally posted by mrwibble
quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
as I understand things, Norwegian law only allows a maximum prison sentence of 21 years and the defence team are trying to prove his is sane, so he'll be out in 21 years!!
[Edited on 17/4/12 by liam.mccaffrey]
I can't see that happening, this is the sort of case where the law gets changed. And they'll have 21 years to change it...
Sanity, or insanity, are simply perspective, each is different.
Is it 'sane' to spend your entire life as a slave to money, only to die. I would argue not.
Surely, we simply look at what is 'acceptable' to the majority. Killing people probably isn't (unless you're in Government, from
their perspective), and a Court will decide that.
Heard a horrific (from my perspective) news article recently about a guy who dug the eyes from a woman. I assume from his perspective, this was OK...
again, absolutely physically sickening from my perspective.
Shooting kids is just wrong whichever way you look at it., He is a bloody terrorist, He needs to die by firing squad, or maybe just drop him out of a plane over the ocean.
As said before, how do you judge sanity, but from a legal perspective I'd say he was sane. His arguements and reasonings, though extreme and just
plain weird, are no more crazy than any other extremist groups that are considered sane.
Killing him or covering things up (which an insanity verdict would allow) would be just as wrong as what he did, and probably more likely to give his
weird views some gravitas. The kind of people that are likely to follow him are much more likely to get his manifestos and ramblings of the internet
than they are to watch or read court room coverage.
On a simillar note, Manson was denied Parole again last week and will be in his 90's by the time he gets another chance. The reasons for keeping
him in prison, they claim he's still a dangerous influence on people so it's likely the same thing will happen to Breivik.
I think we have to have confidence that he won't get out in public again. They surely have provisions, as we do, for killers like this to stay in the clink longer than the 21 years. I just don't feel well about paying for it, if I'm Norwegian, but that's the way it goes unless you want to go around murdering "murderers" at random like they seem to do in certain other places in the world, one of them next to me.
Just a case of turning the wheels of justice some one that twisted can never be allowed into socity again hope it is done quickly and gives the victims kin some kind of closure every now and again we seem to breed a throw back to thousands of years ago when we were nearer to animals i suppose genetically this kind of thing is still in humans
He is sane and deserves everything he gets.
As for ending his existence, I'd go along with that. I really object to having to keep these people alive - housed, fed and watered with plenty
of entertainment (sky/ds/wii).
ATB
Simon
He'll get no sky where he's going. Would be a struggle to keep him alive in jail. It might well end up a case that solitary is necessary.
Sane or not depends on how you define it. I believe him sane in that he isnt having voices/delusions etc, but clearly wrong in the head to be able to
do such crimes, and feel no remorse. It does make me wonder what road he has walked down to end up where he is now, mentally.
I would keep him alive to ponder his crimes, death would be an escape for him. If his final letter is to be believed, Rudolph Hoss came to see how
shocking his crimes were, in the days before his execution.
Sane or insane will only determine where he's incarcerated, not his length of stay. The 21 years maximum, if he's found sane can be extended
at the discretion of the authorities. In my opinion, he should never walk free from whatever institution he's detained in.
The DT today had many insightful posts regarding the Breivik trial, and there was particular focus on his motivation. The post that attracted the most
recommendations focussed on the transformation in ethnicity in such a small nation as Norway, (indigenous pop, circa 5m), and how this had been the
genesis of Breivik's warped thinking.
There was an unrelated article about the machinations of the Labour party in UK and how unfettered immigration was positively welcomed by Blair and
his acolytes in order to 'buy' votes and extend their tenure in government. The left wing press in general and in particular, the BBC were
singled out for opprobrium in aiding and abetting the socialist cause.
What Breivik did was reprehensible, however it's easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater and thus ignore something we should address
head-on. We should be aware that the likes of the BBC and Sky, (to a lesser extent) are guilty of extreme bias. Murnaghan at lunchtime said,
"what Breivik is saying is deeply offensive to Muslims." (Breivik was commenting on the gang-rapes carried out by male muslim gangs against
indigenous girls, like the scandalous case in Rochdale which came to trial in feb this year). It may be offensive, but so too were the actions of the
eleven men found guilty of grooming under-age girls.
We have become so politcally correct that we are blinded to what's happening around us. Worse still, we see it but daren't comment on it. We
are guilty of freewheeling our way to the 'Great Big Melting Pot' sung about by Blue Mink, (in 1970, their lyrics said, "keep it
stirring for 100 years or more, and turn out coffee coloured people by the score"). The writing is on the wall. In 15 years Birmingham (England)
will have a minority white population.
[Edited on 17/4/12 by bobinspain]
As said, sanity is relative, both to your viewpoint and theirs, but I believe he knew what he was doing and as such should be found guilty. Just a shame it happened in a peaceful country where no one carries arms, had it been america I suspect we wouldnt all be suffering the global circus that his trial is rapidly becoming as someone would simply have shot him on the spot, still holding the gun.
quote:
Originally posted by bobinspain
Sane or insane will only determine where he's incarcerated, not his length of stay. The 21 years maximum, if he's found sane can be extended at the discretion of the authorities. In my opinion, he should never walk free from whatever institution he's detained in.
The DT today had many insightful posts regarding the Breivik trial, and there was particular focus on his motivation. The post that attracted the most recommendations focussed on the transformation in ethnicity in such a small nation as Norway, (indigenous pop, circa 5m), and how this had been the genesis of Breivik's warped thinking.
There was an unrelated article about the machinations of the Labour party in UK and how unfettered immigration was positively welcomed by Blair and his acolytes in order to 'buy' votes and extend their tenure in government. The left wing press in general and in particular, the BBC were singled out for opprobrium in aiding and abetting the socialist cause.
What Breivik did was reprehensible, however it's easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater and thus ignore something we should address head-on. We should be aware that the likes of the BBC and Sky, (to a lesser extent) are guilty of extreme bias. Murnaghan at lunchtime said, "what Breivik is saying is deeply offensive to Muslims." (Breivik was commenting on the gang-rapes carried out by male muslim gangs against indigenous girls, like the scandalous case in Rochdale which came to trial in feb this year). It may be offensive, but so too were the actions of the eleven men found guilty of grooming under-age girls.
We have become so politcally correct that we are blinded to what's happening around us. Worse still, we see it but daren't comment on it. We are guilty of freewheeling our way to the 'Great Big Melting Pot' sung about by Blue Mink, (in 1970, their lyrics said, "keep it stirring for 100 years or more, and turn out coffee coloured people by the score". The writing is on the wall. In 15 years Birmingham (England) will have a minority white population.
[Edited on 17/4/12 by bobinspain]
Where I come from, there is a very large Asian population, that in my opinion has been a boon to the area. It struck me one day that pretty much all my brother's friends are Asian people. It's really not an issue. There are still places that are lily white if that's what people want, but it sounds a bit boring to me.
Something worth considering, if he is deemed mentally ill, which he may be he would be sent to a 'hospital' where he would be treated and in
theory released if he was ever deemed to be of sound enough mind.
I still stand by my assertion that execution, and especially extrajudicial execution, is a far worse for society as a whole than full and propper
trials, leading to incarceration and reeducation. From the view point of people who believe these kinds of nutters are influencing people, it's
even more important. I've seen people say in the same breath that some one should be killed so they can't influence others but a martyr has
far more influence than a crazy old man in prison, especially if you can eventually convince him to admit he was wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by RK
Where I come from, there is a very large Asian population, that in my opinion has been a boon to the area. It struck me one day that pretty much all my brother's friends are Asian people. It's really not an issue. There are still places that are lily white if that's what people want, but it sounds a bit boring to me.
There are people who speak English in Newcastle?