Hi all

just been informed my puma is probably a write-off after its prang so now might be the time to look at getting something with a tow bar..

anyone got any recommendations for something thats:

- relatively fun to drive on its own
- fairly economical, but with enough poke to pull a seven on a trailer
- not massively expensive. around about 6 grand?

any recommendations would be appreciated.

im gutted about the puma. perhaps i could buy it back and drop the 1.7 zetec-SE in something else.. its got really low miles and a brand new clutch.

vw bora tdi with a chip

volvo t5 estate

pug 406 v6

If you are prepared to sacrifice the fun to drive clause then I would recommend a nice Audi A6 :-) Fair bit of poke on 2.4 lt upwards.

Was thinking of 406 coupe V6.
Audi A4 Quattro
Impreza
Legacy
5 series BMW
Omega

Well they're all on my list anyway

Marcus

5 series beemer ... Omegas aren't nearly as much fun to drive - except when you pretend to be a police car!

If looking at a 5 series, don't look at anything below the 528, and try and get a manual or tiptronic one.

The v8s make a lovely noise!

I still miss my E34 530 v8 touring....The Omega just isn't the same

quote:

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Originally posted by ned
volvo t5 estate

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If you are a Ford man what about a Focus TDCi? Sweet chassis, bags of torque, goes like stink when its wound up and won't break the bank to insure and run. Cheers, Pewe

Focus TDCi would be a good choice for some handling when not towing.

Otherwise we use a 1.8T Passat to tow the Radical and it does this with ease. Decent mpg for a turbo engine too.

Other VAG diesels for more economy if needed.

I was going to ask the same question but am looking at more like £2k - more cash for the build that way. Must get me to work without fail....

Fun not totally necessary - I have too many points for that anyway!

Sorry about the Hijack!

I believe the puma engine is really rather good - I would hang on to that if you can.

Cheers

Mark

Rover 75 CDT

Skoda VRS - if they are down to that price yet.

Skoda 1.9TDI plenty of poke, 50+mpg, good build, plenty of room and under rated. VW/Audi build and parts with Skoda value...

I've got a 540i Touring

Looks understated in dark metallic green with cream cow inside.

Goes like a rocket with the 4.4l V8 under the front and a tiptronic gear box. 0-60 in 6 ish, limited to 155mph!

Best bit, it cost the old boy who had it before me paid £56k new, and he took a £50k hit on the depreciation before it got to me.

Worst bit, 20mpg in town, 25mpg on the motorway. Must get my arse into gear and get it converted to run on gas.

Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by britishtrident
Rover 75 CDT

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What weight are you towing? If its a big load then you have to go bigger. I have a bishi wanker LWB good for 2.8 ton I think. Transit?

[Edited on 26/4/06 by emsfactory]

my choice would be a legacy twin turbo, as new as possible for 6k. You would be lucky to find a nice impreza for that money. Or a 4x4 Im actually getting a van for towing soon

if you want real good handling 0-60 in 6.5 and 157mph flat out get a civic type-r, they do 38mpg all round if you take it easy, and it'll tow all day, i towed a boat which is about 2.3tonne with the trailer so it'll do a seven easly, you will get one for just about in your budget, if u wanna spent less get the accord type r, same again but doesn't handle quite as good, better for towing and still will do the 150 barrier, just! oh and the 8500rpm is fun too

but what ever you do don't get a crappy rover, there so called sporty zr thing is shit, the rest are sunday granny wagons, type r or like joelp says a legacy, japanese is the best anyday,

[Edited on 26/4/06 by GEORGE80]

quote:

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Originally posted by pewe
If you are a Ford man what about a Focus TDCi? Sweet chassis, bags of torque, goes like stink when its wound up and won't break the bank to insure and run. Cheers, Pewe

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quote:

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Originally posted by GEORGE80
i towed a boat which is about 2.3tonne with the trailer

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quote:

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Originally posted by GEORGE80
i towed a boat which is about 2.3tonne

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quote:

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Originally posted by GEORGE80
but what ever you do don't get a crappy rover, there so called sporty zr thing is shit, the rest are sunday granny wagons, type r or like joelp says a legacy, japanese is the best anyday,

[Edited on 26/4/06 by GEORGE80]

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yup

Ok, for George80, from the TG lap times

Ford Focus RS - 1.32.2
Lotus Esprit V8 - 1.32.5
Audi TT V6 - 1.32.7
MG ZT - 1.33
Noble - 1.33.1
Mercedes SL 55 AMG - 1.33.2
Volkswagen Golf R32 - 1.33.2
Cadillac CTS-V - 1.33.3
Holden Monaro - 1.33.9
Ford Focus ST - 1.34.9
Volvo S60R - 1.35.0
Ferrari 575 - 1.35.2
Alfa 147 GTA - 1.35.6
Lotus Elise - 1.35.6
Aston Martin Vanquish - 1.36.2
Renault Clio v6 - 1.36.2
Honda Civic Type R - 1.36.5
Saab 95 hot aero - 1.37.9
Mazzer - 1.38.0
Bowler Wildcat - 1.39.4
Bentley Arnarge - 1.40.8
Overfinch - 1.44.

Mike - I agree with you re the 260, though I couldn't stretch to the blower

ATB

Simon

some good recommendations here, will keep me busy in autotrader for a few days

cheers all!

quote:

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Originally posted by britishtrident

quote:

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Originally posted by GEORGE80
but what ever you do don't get a crappy rover, there so called sporty zr thing is shit, the rest are sunday granny wagons, type r or like joelp says a legacy, japanese is the best anyday,

[Edited on 26/4/06 by GEORGE80]

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Nobody had mentioned the ZR -- the ZT 260 is a different beast entirely, where the lack lustre ZR was 95% Japanese Honda in origin the ZT is essentially a FWD BMW.

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get a landrover ittl tow all day and with a few mods ittl sit at 100 on the motorway even towing a trailer and if you paint it green and get an ex army trailer the police wont do anything about speeding with a trailer lol


and then you can go offroading which is much more fun then driving really fast even though its all done at less then 10 mph lol (well proper off roading is)

Toyota Landcruiser 4.2 TD. Like towing from your armchair!

Can't think of a much more unsuitable towing car than a Type R (maybe a locost...). Towing wants plenty of low down torque, not high BHP at 9000RPM. The K20 engined Civic has a not unreasonable 145lbft, but it peaks at nearly 6000RPM which is just silly for towing. Interesting that Honda don't even specify a maximum towing weight for it either.

I'm not saying it's a bad car, as clearly it isn't, but as a car purchased with the intention of towing it wouldn't make it onto my list of candidates.

ALL of you have missed out some VERY important points.

First tot up the weight you want to tow (all in ie trailer + Load).
This will dictate which vehicles are Unsiutable.
All vehicles will have a bit in the handbook and you are looking for "Maximum Braked Trailer Towing Limit" For most cars this will be around the same weight as the car itself. BUT Check the manual, and dont assume it is the same as the car's weight.

This is the Maximum load the car is designed to tow.
The AA / RAC etc etc reccomend you DO NOT exceed 85% of that limit or the vehicles weight. Towing at 100% is not very nice and gives rise to instability between the tow car and the trailer.

I have towed regularly for many years and know this to be good advice from the AA / RAC etc.

If you tow in the upper limits of the weights, then I would thoroughly reccomend using an Anti Snake bar to dampen down the sideways movements. they are very worthwhile.

Most 4x4's of the larger type have towing limits in excess of the vehicle weight. my LWB 110 Land Rover will tow up to 3.5Tonnes legally. Again check the Handbooks for the vehicle.

If you are overweight with your towing limits you will have a dangerous vehicle, and would be liable to prosecution.

As for a Land Rover towing at 100Mph ALL Day, I think you have not done your homework. Most Land Rovers wont do 100Mph even without a trailer!
Please bear in mind that the Maximum speed for a car / trailer is 60 mph in the UK, and LESS (50) on non motorway / dual carriageways., and 30 elsewhere.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.htm

Just remember that if you have a heavy trailer say .. weighing in a 500kgs and a Locost, a set of spare wheels, some tools and 4 people in the car, I would think carefully, as you are probably near the Gross Train weight.

Also for the younger people on here.
If you passed your car driving test after January 1997, you may now need to pass a separate test (licence category B + E) to tow a trailer or caravan weighing over 750kg M.A.M. (Maximum Authorised Mass).

http://www.learners.co.uk/towing/towing-txt0.htm

I am not trying to be a Killjoy... just trying to mention important things that people seem to have missed.

Think carefully before towing..

Geoff,

Good post!

ATB

Simon

indeed, but to be fair, id guess that the dude who started this thread is around 28 (how'd i guess that?!) and he's on about towing around 1000kgs, so he's ok with any of the recommendations

I was just pointing out a few bits that a lot of people forget. 97-2006 thats about 9 years, so it encompasses a lot of young drivers. It also depends on when you took your test, and not so much on how old you are.

Also if his licence is Post '97 he cant tow 1000Kgs without the towing test. Also this is more or less 100% car to trailer ratio, and would be limited to 750kgs if he hasnt passed the test.
He would be better off with a heavier car like a granada type size of car for 1000kgs towed weight.

I'm not trying to make it an issue, but a lot of people dont realise the change in the laws re towing and the licence categories.

Oh.. Also ensure your car insurance covers you to tow. Also whether it insures the load and trailer is another matter to check up on. You wouldnt want to loose a kit car / track car in an accident especially when you were not driving it. Most car insurances only give 3rd party risks for the trailer and do not cover the load, only the 3rd party damage it causes. Also check the towed cars insurance, as it may not cover it whilst being trailered, ie only when driven on the roads.

I have been through all these types of scenarios when setting up to tow my caravan, and fetching land rovers on trailers etc. The Land Rover and trailer came to just over 3 tonnes not including the towing landy. Thats 5+ tonnes gross weight, and you know it when you are towing 3+ tonnes

Also... ANYONE changing their address / anything on the licence, can have problems, as the DVLA have sent out a lot of licences without the classes on that you had on an older licence, ie towing and Class D1 for minbusses This is OK, but I have been told thay shred your old licence after a few weeks, hence you cant then prove you had the old classes on your licence. Be Warned, to take care and check the licence as soon as it comes back to you.

Right that will do for tonight...


[Edited on 27/4/2006 by wilkingj]

i was worried about that one recently, as i passed around 99 i think.However, i found out that i can tow up to a total weight of 3500kgs i believe it was. Gimme 2 mins to find the link

quote:

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Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) OR a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Simon
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Bowler Wildcat - 1.39.4
...

Simon

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Joel,
What you have there is what you are allowed to tow.
Read the paragraph above which states:

Drivers who passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 are required to pass an additional driving test in order to gain entitlement to category B+E and all larger vehicles. In addition to the new driving tests, drivers of vehicles which fall within subcategories C1, C1+E, D1 and D1+E also have to meet higher medical standards.

B is the car licence, and the E is trailers over 750 kgs.

Your licence covers you for a car and a trailer UP to 750Kgs, provided the trailer weighs less than the car, and the total is less that 3500kgs.
Over that you need a towing test.

Its not very clear, and too complicated. its no wonder that people dont take any notice.

Its all OK, untill you do a Selby train Crash or simmilar.

ah well, bollox to it anyway. i drove past great heck today!

i say bollox aswell.

i passed after the 97 date. its beaurocratic (sp?!) bollox as someone who passed the week before isn't going to be any better a driver being able to tow the weight.

i've driven a 3 or 4 ton lwb american cheve camper with full steel enclosed trailer with race car, spare wheels, spare engine (iron block 2ltr), tools etc in it, probably over 5 tonnes in total. The likelihood of being stopped is also very low, especially if its only a locost on a trailer behind an estate car.

Ned.

quote:

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Originally posted by ned
i say bollox aswell.

i passed after the 97 date. its beaurocratic (sp?!) bollox as someone who passed the week before isn't going to be any better a driver being able to tow the weight.

i've driven a 3 or 4 ton lwb american cheve camper with full steel enclosed trailer with race car, spare wheels, spare engine (iron block 2ltr), tools etc in it, probably over 5 tonnes in total. The likelihood of being stopped is also very low, especially if its only a locost on a trailer behind an estate car.

Ned.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JoelP
indeed, but to be fair, id guess that the dude who started this thread is around 28 (how'd i guess that?!) and he's on about towing around 1000kgs, so he's ok with any of the recommendations

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Its all OK, untill you do a Selby train Crash or simmilar.

Geoff's 100% correct. It may appear to be "bolloxs" , but have a crash and you'll end up having no insurance.

The chance of getting stopped is low.....but....

It is not unknown for DoT and police to sit outside motorsport venues, and even camping sites, and weigh the trailers going in or out. (Heck, they were outside our local tip recently. The Marigolds and blue rinse brigade were having fits. )

Quite a number were done outside Brands Hatch not too long ago.

The Cops have a liking for most motorsport venues and trackday tracks when cracking down on trailers.

You have now been warned.

'Towing capability' and 'every day car' don't live happily in the same sentence.

For towing, I'd go with a transit diesel. I've towed a trailer with car aboard at 70mph on motorway, and got 40+ mpg. You would go a long way to find something to beat that.

Cheers,
Syd.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dillinger1977

either startlingly good guess, or got the DOB off my art site

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hahah oh yes, forgot about that

Id have to agree with Ned seeing as he owns my old Bora TDi, but Ive now got a Leon Cupra which is another great towcar, and you can pick early ones up for less than £5k now. Its more fun to drive than the Bora but can't quite match the 42mpg I got with the bora whilst towing to Spa a couple of years ago! In fact it cant even get close without the trailer, giving ~30mpg on its own and ~25mpg towing

Chris

[Edited on 29/4/06 by ChrisGamlin]

quote:

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Originally posted by wilkingj
Joel,
What you have there is what you are allowed to tow.
Read the paragraph above which states:

Drivers who passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 are required to pass an additional driving test in order to gain entitlement to category B+E and all larger vehicles. In addition to the new driving tests, drivers of vehicles which fall within subcategories C1, C1+E, D1 and D1+E also have to meet higher medical standards.

B is the car licence, and the E is trailers over 750 kgs.

Your licence covers you for a car and a trailer UP to 750Kgs, provided the trailer weighs less than the car, and the total is less that 3500kgs.
Over that you need a towing test.

Its not very clear, and too complicated. its no wonder that people dont take any notice.

Its all OK, untill you do a Selby train Crash or simmilar.

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quote:

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Originally posted by wilkingj
I was just pointing out a few bits that a lot of people forget. 97-2006 thats about 9 years, so it encompasses a lot of young drivers. It also depends on when you took your test, and not so much on how old you are.

Also if his licence is Post '97 he cant tow 1000Kgs without the towing test. Also this is more or less 100% car to trailer ratio, and would be limited to 750kgs if he hasnt passed the test.
He would be better off with a heavier car like a granada type size of car for 1000kgs towed weight.

I'm not trying to make it an issue, but a lot of people dont realise the change in the laws re towing and the licence categories.

Oh.. Also ensure your car insurance covers you to tow. Also whether it insures the load and trailer is another matter to check up on. You wouldnt want to loose a kit car / track car in an accident especially when you were not driving it. Most car insurances only give 3rd party risks for the trailer and do not cover the load, only the 3rd party damage it causes. Also check the towed cars insurance, as it may not cover it whilst being trailered, ie only when driven on the roads.

I have been through all these types of scenarios when setting up to tow my caravan, and fetching land rovers on trailers etc. The Land Rover and trailer came to just over 3 tonnes not including the towing landy. Thats 5+ tonnes gross weight, and you know it when you are towing 3+ tonnes

Also... ANYONE changing their address / anything on the licence, can have problems, as the DVLA have sent out a lot of licences without the classes on that you had on an older licence, ie towing and Class D1 for minbusses This is OK, but I have been told thay shred your old licence after a few weeks, hence you cant then prove you had the old classes on your licence. Be Warned, to take care and check the licence as soon as it comes back to you.

Right that will do for tonight...


[Edited on 27/4/2006 by wilkingj]

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Sorry just to reply to original thread, i had a audi A4 quattro (RS4 replica)and it could pull a tank 1,9tdi with a super chip up to nearly 200bhp, superb and the toe bars are clip off so you can store in ya boot

Surely the part below from Joels quote. As it clearly states that with category B you can tow above 750kg aslong as it isnt more than the car and the total is above 3500kg.

quote:

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OR a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

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yep, so in actual fact you are allowed a train weight of 4250kg if it's a 3500kg vehicle with a 750kg trailer.

however if the trailer is over 750kg, the train weight has to be less than 3500kg.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dillinger1977

quote:

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Originally posted by JoelP
indeed, but to be fair, id guess that the dude who started this thread is around 28 (how'd i guess that?!) and he's on about towing around 1000kgs, so he's ok with any of the recommendations

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either startlingly good guess, or got the DOB off my art site

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It's already been cited in this thread! (see below)

I don't know what the rules are if you have a pre 97 licence, but even if it is allowed, you wouldn't really want to do it.

quote:

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Originally posted by JoelP
i was worried about that one recently, as i passed around 99 i think.However, i found out that i can tow up to a total weight of 3500kgs i believe it was. Gimme 2 mins to find the link

quote:

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Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) OR a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

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http://www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/dl_towing_trailers.htm

so not as bad as could be, i believe the law just prevent noobies towing massive loads, which is fair enough

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