Wind power? Boll**ks! Waste of time and resources.
Hi all, not too far off finishing my workshop next to the garage, i will probably be running some cable down the garden for power tools etc but in the
interests of being green, doing my bit for the environment and all that i was thinking of setting up a wind turbine to at least power the lights,
radio, mini fridge etc.
Does anyone know a good site to find out more , maybe a DIY version?
Cheers.
Not a locost option, as well as a turbine you will need a UPS (uninterupted power supply) which basically stores energy via batteries for when the
wind drops or a static switch that changes the supply to the mains.
B & Q do a set up for £1500, but I don't know what else it includes in the kit.
Not worth the investment. If your really that concerned about saving the planet, sell the project and buy a mountain bike.
I have seen a small system where a guy built his own using a bank of car batteries a 90 amp alternator (24V) from an army landrover (FFR) and the
blades were small he then used an inverter to give 240 volts where required. This installation I have to say was in a hotel and powered most of the
equipment in the hotel.
Regards
Bob
Yeah, but the price of the technonly would take 30 years to break even!
Even better, sell the project and buy a mountain bike (as mentioned) and hook it up to a battery via a belt and you can get fit and power everything
in your garage at the same time.
Pat...
http://www.navitron.org.uk/
Is your man. They supplied all the gear to Dick Strawbridge for "it's not easy being green" as far as I know.
The 2 panel solar water kit with all the bits is £1500 from Navitron. A single kit with most of the bits is £3000 from B&Q!
A 200W 12v turbine is about £325, add in your batteries for when it ain't windy.
HTH
Mike
There are locost ways of doing them, but you would need to be pretty handy with electronics and fabrication. Building your own blades/hub etc would be
difficult, but as mentioned, the elctronics may prove more difficult. Someone at my work has made one for himself (9' diameter on a 24' high
tower), but we make propellers for a living, so it guess that was a simple task for him. It can be done, and dont be put off by others saying it
cant...
Step by step guide
Vertical axis design
Another useful site...
Another step by step
Might be of some use...
A good starting point
Plenty of info out there, have a good look, and make up your own mind.
[Edited on 4/1/08 by twybrow]
Absolute waste of time and energy.
Wind power for electricity generation is nbg. I drive past some fairly big wind farms in west of scotland and 95% of the time they aren't even
turning..
In UK latitudes solar electricity generation is only useful for topping up batteries.
Agree, solar for energy generation is limited in the uk, but by the technology/cost, not the sun. However, solar for hot water generation is very
viable and cost effective in the uk. You can heat a tank of water on a cloudy day.
As for this being a complete waste of time and money, that is a bit of a crappy attitude. Someone probably said that when Ron suggested builing a
sports car 'on the cheap'. If you can lay your hands on some of the more technical bits (often available from scrap yards etc), then I think
it could prove very useful and cost effective (assuming you are not moving house any time soon!).
If the wind turbines you see in Scotland are not turning, chances are they are broken/switched off. They will turn in a very light wind (5mph) so if
they are always off, I would say they are locked off for a reason.
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
Agree, solar for energy generation is limited in the uk, but by the technology/cost, not the sun. However, solar for hot water generation is very viable and cost effective in the uk. You can heat a tank of water on a cloudy day.
Use a small alternator with blades on it and a Tesla coil to upgrade the output. Should be enough to light the workshop and dance around to the radio...
quote:
Originally posted by MkIndy7
Whilst on a training course for Vailant boilers they had their solar water heating on display... "oooh feel the heat going into the hot water cylinder"...
yes it is very hot but how fast is it flowing for the sun to have heated it up to that temperature.. "erm well sir"
you can do it different and cheap.
You could build a simpel vertical mill.
They are the easyest to build.
as a generator you can use a normal AC engine. the only thing you need is to rev it 10% above its rpm rating then you generate the full 230AC power
* the rating of te engine. Sow turn a 220v 100watt engine in a generator is simple.
Downside of this is that unter that rpm it won't produce much. (a DC engine will)
+ is that you don't need any time of converter / batteries.
also take in mind i talk about small consumers don't try to start another electric motor in this setup.
if you want to use a 3phase engine you can only thing needed is a capicitor
lights should work.
there should be websites wich use tis concept.
Tks
p.d. wanting to be green is never wrong.
and in my opinion as long as there is wind/enough wind it always will be efficient.
some say the the Co2 polution you create to build one huge windmill is bigger then its Co2 savings, others say that if you never build one you never
can build one without the polution.
Energie prices will go up and who knows where the limits are??? in 2004 in spain 1 litre of 95 was 86 euro cents. now its 1,10 euro cents this is a
rise of 25% approx.
This year in spain earthgas is up by: 4%
electricity is up by: 5%
water is up: between 2 and 5%
if electricity ge sup everything goes up because to maintain your rate you need to compensate costs. so the price of alloy ill keep riseing etc. etc.
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
quote:
Originally posted by MkIndy7
Whilst on a training course for Vailant boilers they had their solar water heating on display... "oooh feel the heat going into the hot water cylinder"...
yes it is very hot but how fast is it flowing for the sun to have heated it up to that temperature.. "erm well sir"
Even if you pre-warmed your water before going into a conventiaonal boiler, imagine the savings you could make. Plus, this 20 year payback is based upon current fuel prices - anyone had a letter from their supplier re price increases?! I am sure you could DIY and make it pay in much less time. Check out what Dick did on I'Its not easy being green' they made one from old bits of pipe etc, and that was heating all of the water for a family!
From an ex winfarm technician (me).......
Wind power? Boll**ks! Waste of time and resources.
My plan was more along the DIY route, build it for as little as possible i dunno maybe £250?
As well as the feeling of being green i thought it would also be an interesting construction exercise as well as educational, i like to learn new
things.
I thought if i just use it to run the lights then at least its saving some energy and can only be a good thing.
I will do some more research and hunt the scrap yards and ebay to work out how much it might cost.
Cheers.
So what is the answer then people? If wind is no good (and I certainly agree it is far from perfect) then what else? Surely we dont all want to continue with gas/coal power? Is nuclear the way forward (not really viable for just running the garage lights!)? Or tidal? Micro-generation? Just curious as to peoples views....
I remember years ago when i was a lad growing up in North Devon there was a plan drawn up to build a huge barrier across the Bristol channel, it was
to be built in such a way as to use both the incoming and outgoing tide.
It would have generated huge amounts of energy but would have cost a staggering amount of money to build which is probably why it never happened.
i wrote my BEng final year assignment on solar water heating systems.
I now associate the mere mention of the phrase with a time in my life where i was the most stressed and unhappy i have ever been.
in fact i hated them so much i burned my thesis when it was handed back to me.
Despite liking them, i wouldn't have one because they make me so unhappy.
the answer is GM - Genetic modification.
the next generatrion of kiddies should be modified to have very thick insulating skin and fur so no need for heating plus 4 stomachs to digest carrots
meaning no need for such bright lights. Probalby not very practical for the DIYer as you need some specailist equipment like syringes, bunsen
burners, test tubes and stuff.
I think we all need to accept some level of responsibility for our energy consumption and useage, both on a personal and a national level.
Unfortunatley that is going to mean some pretty un-popular decisions being made, which as long as we have "here today, gone tomorrow"
politicians in charge, just won't get made. 
As an island nation, we really should look at tidal energy for our future needs. But it's expensive and un-popular / not sexy. Obviously tidal
isn't going to be the answer for somewhere like New Mexico. So it's never going to be a one size fits all solution. Each nation is going
to have to make the most of its own natural resources.
On a personal level, we are all faced with options about our energy consumption and where we get it from (the joys of a "free market
economy" ) . If we all insulated our houses, switched off the TV at night etc etc, and reduced demand by 5% we might do our bit, but the
majority is going to have to be done by central govt.
I personally loved "it's not easy being green" but it's not for me. I am looking at fitting a solar hot water system when I
convert my loft this year. I believe it will make a difference and be suitable for my useage. However the loft will also be packed out with
insulation so it doesn't get too hot in the summer, and too cold in the winter.
Rant over,
Mike
quote:
Originally posted by scotty g
I remember years ago when i was a lad growing up in North Devon there was a plan drawn up to build a huge barrier across the Bristol channel, it was to be built in such a way as to use both the incoming and outgoing tide.
It would have generated huge amounts of energy but would have cost a staggering amount of money to build which is probably why it never happened.
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
So what is the answer then people? If wind is no good (and I certainly agree it is far from perfect) then what else? Surely we dont all want to continue with gas/coal power? Is nuclear the way forward (not really viable for just running the garage lights!)? Or tidal? Micro-generation? Just curious as to peoples views....
How on earth is it sustainable? Ok, you might have plenty of fuel, but how many holes in the ground can we chuck the waste into before we decide it is
a bad idea!?
For the uk, i think we will have to adopt a mix of wave/tidal/wind/nuclear for the majority, with far more emphasis on local generation (biomass) to
supply small communities
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
the answer is GM - Genetic modification.
the next generatrion of kiddies should be modified to have very thick insulating skin and fur so no need for heating plus 4 stomachs to digest carrots meaning no need for such bright lights. Probalby not very practical for the DIYer as you need some specailist equipment like syringes, bunsen burners, test tubes and stuff.
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
How on earth is it sustainable? Ok, you might have plenty of fuel, but how many holes in the ground can we chuck the waste into before we decide it is a bad idea!?
If we did go nuclear, we could get rid of petrol and have electric cars, no need for gas just use electric heaters etc thus we could bring down co2 levels by quite a lot. The problem is which is better to die of radiation or climate change?
quote:
Originally posted by scotty g
.... but in the interests of being green, doing my bit for the environment and all that Cheers.
I did plant a tree, in fact in the last 2 years i have planted 4 trees all in the back garden, 2 apple, 1 plum and horse chestnut.
is to dump it into the sun. All we need is a reliable way to get it there, which im sure can be done. Im not sure on the exact figure but you can get
an awful lot of energy per tonne of waste.
Why on earth cant you just link an alternator to a fan and store the excess in a few old batteries? Combine that with waterwheels in your gutter fall
pipe and jobs a good un!
Nuclear waste although bad, isnt as awful as frequently portrayed if treated properly.
Last time i checked each station only produces about 10 tonnes of highly reactive waste per year. This waste is then vitrified and sealed in
containers before being stored in geologically stable structures. It doesnt leach into the water table or through the ground structure. Its also all
in one place unlike the particulate and chemical discharges from fossil generation sites.
I read something about Raw reactive uranium despite being in the ground for X million years doesnt move even in areas of failry porous rock.
What is a greater concern is the security threat to the waste and lower grade waste for terrorist activities.
Current "green" solutions are exceptionally poor both in terms of quantity and quality of generation. The best that can be hoped for from
these is they offset the massive grid losses slightly the times that they are operating. They can cause a large amount of remedial work to the grid
with re-cabling and switching due to them being located on the weak exterior of the grid.
To get better overall efficiency power generation needs to be carried out in bulk and this current goverment incentive to have greater micro
generation seems to be at odds to this.
Im firmly in favour of nuclear at the moment becuase its the cleanest viable option available. The world has enough reserves of uranium 237(?) for
conversion to plutonium to supply the worlds current maximum demands for the next 10,000 years.
If you want to be green at home / in the workshop fit more / better insulation to your house and help reduce your energy consumption.
IF you want a less energy demanding radio buy a trevor balis wind up one.
I wouldn't go as far as to say Nuclear waste isn't bad. I've just read Alan Weisman's book (The World without Us) on what would
happen to the planet if the human race mysteriously dissappeared.
The amount of nuclear waste is truly scary - there are 411 nuclear stations on the planet actually producing 13,000 tonnes of high level nuclear
scrap
Uranium 235 has a half life of 704 million years. In the US, there is at least 1/2 million tonnes of depleted U 235 (called U 238). Half life 4.5
BILLION years.
There is a place in the States called the Waste Isolation Plant which opened in 1999 and was designed for low - medium grade nuclear material -
gloves, shoes covers, rags, machining equipment (irradiated during manufacture of nukes) including walls from bomb factories etc etc. The WIP has room
for 6.2 million cu feet of stuff and is 20% full.
Read the book, I'm not an environmentalist, but the state we're getting the planet into is rather shocking.
ATB
Simon
the rate of technological advance is staggering though. At worst 50 years til we have developed a truly clean and free energy source, maybe another 50 to make it work on an industrial scale. And im sure that in that time we will also be able to either clean up existing waste (at least its all stored neatly!) or safely get it into the sun.
I chose my words very carefully in my first sentence. Nuclear is bad its undenaible but to me its our only current option.
Even without nuclear power stations the amount of high and medium radioactive waste is considerable. It comes from everthing from
processing/manufacturing through to food and medical. This waste has less regulation but can prove to be every bit as dangerous.
I think in terms of tonnage these sources far outstrip the power stations.
I think that figure in the book must also contain material from decommisioned stations. 400 power station would be 4000 tonnes (very approximatley) of
spent fuel (something like 97% mass remains after re-processing a pellet).
No matter what its a less than ideal amount of waste.
Im sure there will be some great saviour of power source will come allong soon and save us. Stable fussion would be nice or working plasma toroids.
yes but can i get them in my workshop?
http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html
http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s595641.htm