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Supercharged Zetec.
jeffw - 27/1/12 at 01:26 PM

As some of you will know I am in the process of having my Zetec supercharged. The supercharger will be a kit from Omex, who are also supplying the rods and pistons, Bosch 044 pump, 690cc injectors and the map sensor/cabling. Flak Monkey of these parts is making me a backplate and spacer to take the GTiR Nissan plenum.

Currently the engine is out of the car and at ATSpeed for the rods and pistons to be fitted. The gearbox is with BGH to be refurbed while the car is at Fury Sportscars for other work (and the have the engine taken out and back in).

Once the engine is back in I will fit the supercharger, sort out the intercooler etc and then the car will be back to ATSpeed to be mapped.

This is the rolling road results for Omex's development engine which was running high compression than mine while but doesn't have the cams & head mine does (CNC Heads head/cam combination)



Not very Locost but I thought I would share anyway.


loggyboy - 27/1/12 at 01:31 PM

This is the spec of engine that Raw were displaying at Autosport and is shortly going in their Demo Phoenix IIRC.
Looks beastful.
http://www.totalkitcar.com/tkc_article_2143.php

[Edited on 27/1/12 by loggyboy]


jeffw - 27/1/12 at 01:43 PM

Richard at Omex has just shipped RAW's engine to them so my kit is next. So there will be two supercharged Zetec Phoenix lol.

[Edited on 27/1/12 by jeffw]


Dopdog - 27/1/12 at 02:12 PM

in the link to Raws engine is that the same inlet you will be getting fitted to your car?


Norfolkluegojnr - 27/1/12 at 02:35 PM

thats a mental power curve not sure my brain can react that quick......

Could i be cheeky and ask what the ball park cost will be?


Dopdog - 27/1/12 at 02:53 PM

just the supercharger kit from Raw is £2500 then all the rest of the bits to go with it


Norfolkluegojnr - 27/1/12 at 03:02 PM

holy poop.


Sounds awesome though, on board video when available please!


loggyboy - 27/1/12 at 03:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Dopdog
just the supercharger kit from Raw is £2500 then all the rest of the bits to go with it

anything that adds circa 200hp is not gonna come cheap!


jeffw - 27/1/12 at 03:08 PM

I'm using the GTiR plenum which Flak has done for me.





The Jenvey one in the pictures of the RAW engine wouldn't fit in my car (they have had to use very short TBs to get it in) and it costs another £650. Total cost for the conversion is going to be in the region of £5.5K (supercharger kit, rods & pistons, intercooler, injectors, pump, building engine and mapping).


dlatch - 27/1/12 at 05:37 PM

now this is what i call winter upgrades
will be awesome when done bet you can't wait

the gtir plenum is popular with the turbo zetec boys as well and seems to work very well

[Edited on 27/1/12 by dlatch]


jeffw - 27/1/12 at 08:19 PM

The GTiR plenum is a good piece of kit and only £45 from a breakers.


mabbs - 28/1/12 at 01:03 PM

Sorry to Hi-jack slightly but I am too building a supercharged Zetec engine. I have been building a MEV Rocket for about 15 months and after much research decided to use the Rotrex C30-94 with forged internals. At the time I started with the engine build Omex did not offer forged pistons and Rods so again with lots of research I got mine made by JE Pistons and PEC rods. Also their was no bracket for transverse application as it needed to incorporate the engine mount. TTS agreed to design the bracket for this application. I will be running a Jenvey plenum and a single 70mm throttle body and hope to make simular figures to yourself with slight head work. Have also invested in a Quaife straight cut close ratio gearbox with their ATB LSD, so taking RPM to 8000, should be good for 55mph in 1st and 160mph top end - but I very much doubt I will see that top end !!

As I work in the industry, the car is full carbon fibre panels, seats etc:







Seats have recently been changed to this picture for pre-preg carbon seats

Car is a little further on than the pics above and is currently being wired with an Omex 600. Should be mapped and dyno'd end of February with a bit of luck.

Will be watching your thread to see how your engine performs,

Jon


jeffw - 28/1/12 at 03:36 PM

Some lovely work there...I'm pleased you changed the seats as the red ones didn't really suit the look.

The Omex kit uses the 30-94 as well running at 1.2 bar so it will be interesting to see what the figures look like .


me! - 28/1/12 at 04:09 PM

Bloody hell- how big is it? It makes that other car in the garage look tiny!


jeffw - 28/1/12 at 05:01 PM

lol


mabbs - 28/1/12 at 05:35 PM

Just found this pic of it at the Autosport show a couple of weeks ago with the pre-preg seats fitted:




Sorry - hijack over


jeffw - 28/1/12 at 05:46 PM

A great deal of work has gone into that...Mine will be dirty in comparison.


franky - 28/1/12 at 06:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
A great deal of work has gone into that...Mine will be dirty in comparison.


And all the better for it, could you imagine trying to clean that once its got dirty

if you get circa 330bhp it'll be a quick car, my old one was heavier than yours and would still do a genuine 0-100 in 7sec's with road legal rubber on a stoney airfield. Should help you hit that 150mph at goodwood


jeffw - 28/1/12 at 07:33 PM

Hope so I was 6 secs off the FTD time set by a Nissan GTR last time out at Goodwood..extra top will help close the gap.


scotty g - 28/1/12 at 08:10 PM

Hi jeff,
was chatting to the guys from Fury sportscars last night and got to talking about your super charge upgrade, one of the other chaps in the pub also has a supercharged zetec in his GBS (robin hood) Zero and says his power curve tops out at about 230-240 bhp!!! so whats he done wrong?


jeffw - 28/1/12 at 09:29 PM

small supercharger? or low boost. Omex do a low boost kit with runs 0.6 bar with standard internals and injection system which makes 220 HP on a stock Zetec. Mine is a Rotrex 30-94 running 1.2Bar on Jenvey TBs and it has low comp forged pistons (10:1) and H section rods. With the large valve head and the high lift cams this should push the car into the 340-350 range.


BaileyPerformance - 28/1/12 at 10:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
small supercharger? or low boost. Omex do a low boost kit with runs 0.6 bar with standard internals and injection system which makes 220 HP on a stock Zetec. Mine is a Rotrex 30-94 running 1.2Bar on Jenvey TBs and it has low comp forged pistons (10:1) and H section rods. With the large valve head and the high lift cams this should push the car into the 340-350 range.


Hi, you said 10/1 CR, this is high for a supercharged engine, we run 9.5/1 absolute max with 20PSI


jeffw - 29/1/12 at 06:54 AM

Yes 10:1 on 1.2 bar so 17.4 PSI. Which is pretty much the same as 9.5:1 on 20PSI (or 1.37bar)


BaileyPerformance - 30/1/12 at 05:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Yes 10:1 on 1.2 bar so 17.4 PSI. Which is pretty much the same as 9.5:1 on 20PSI (or 1.37bar)


You've lost me now! i was thinking of the static CR of the engine, a stock 2.0L zetec is 9.5/1. Normally a supercharged engine uses a lower static CR. For example Cosworth YB is 8.3/1 CR.


jeffw - 30/1/12 at 06:03 PM

Effectively when you boost an engine you increase the compression ratio by the amount of boost. So while the 10:1 ratio is higher the boost it is running is lower hence there isn't an issue.


BaileyPerformance - 31/1/12 at 04:16 PM

So your running 1.2Bar of boost with a static CR of 10/1? will you be running it on 98RON?


Fieldy - 31/1/12 at 05:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mabbs
Sorry to Hi-jack slightly but I am too building a supercharged Zetec engine. I have been building a MEV Rocket for about 15 months and after much research decided to use the Rotrex C30-94 with forged internals. At the time I started with the engine build Omex did not offer forged pistons and Rods so again with lots of research I got mine made by JE Pistons and PEC rods. Also their was no bracket for transverse application as it needed to incorporate the engine mount. TTS agreed to design the bracket for this application. I will be running a Jenvey plenum and a single 70mm throttle body and hope to make simular figures to yourself with slight head work. Have also invested in a Quaife straight cut close ratio gearbox with their ATB LSD, so taking RPM to 8000, should be good for 55mph in 1st and 160mph top end - but I very much doubt I will see that top end !!

As I work in the industry, the car is full carbon fibre panels, seats etc:







Seats have recently been changed to this picture for pre-preg carbon seats

Car is a little further on than the pics above and is currently being wired with an Omex 600. Should be mapped and dyno'd end of February with a bit of luck.

Will be watching your thread to see how your engine performs,

Jon



Wow that looks awesome!


flak monkey - 1/2/12 at 08:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
So your running 1.2Bar of boost with a static CR of 10/1? will you be running it on 98RON?


It'll be fine. Centrifugal superchargers make their peak boost at high rpm so the likelihood of detonation is really quite low. Comparing staic CR on different engines is a bit pointless anyway. Dynamic CR makes a bigger difference, and resistance to det is a function of good engine design more than you might think.

I ran 10:1 CR and peaked at boosts of around 1.1bar without a hint of det on my Duratec, even when I was messing with fuel and spark.


jeffw - 2/2/12 at 06:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
So your running 1.2Bar of boost with a static CR of 10/1? will you be running it on 98RON?


Of course. You must understand that Omex have been running this setup for 12 months plus on several development engines so I am not inventing the wheel here but rather using their full kit. The rods and pistons are to their specification, the fuel pump and injectors are coming from them as is the full supercharger kit. Richard at Omex is also supplying the map which was used on the Dev engine and ATSpeed will then map the car from there.

The engine is now built and will be back tomorrow. Should have everything back in the car in the next few weeks.


jeffw - 10/2/12 at 02:07 PM

look what has turned up






Norfolkluegojnr - 10/2/12 at 02:44 PM

Sweet. Bolt it on and start her up!


jeffw - 10/2/12 at 02:58 PM

There are obviously a large number of other bits but these are the shiny ones


MikeRJ - 10/2/12 at 04:44 PM

So what happens if the pulley gets turned backwards?


jeffw - 10/2/12 at 04:55 PM

Don't know and I'm going to try it ! (not)

[Edited on 10/2/12 by jeffw]


flak monkey - 10/2/12 at 06:11 PM

Nice lump aren't they?

Turning them backwards can undo the internal components, so don't! I made up a long pin spanner to change the pulleys on mine. They do themselves up damn tight after a little while.

Hopefully your plates should have got back to you today.


jeffw - 10/2/12 at 06:30 PM

Yes, turned up, thanks. I'll check it against the TBs shortly.


mabbs - 10/2/12 at 07:32 PM

Hi Jeff,

Still got to get my supercharger. The one in the pics is a seized unit I am using for mock-up. Have not decided on pulley size yet. When do you expect to be up and running ?


jeffw - 10/2/12 at 09:41 PM

Should be 2-3 weeks, depends on the gearbox at the moment. I was talking to Richard at Omex about your car, sounds like a great build.


mabbs - 11/2/12 at 08:39 AM

I think you likley to get yours running before me. Cant wait to see how it performs.

[Edited on 11/2/12 by mabbs]


jeffw - 22/2/12 at 06:37 PM





Getting close to being ready. Really neat intercooler mounting by the boys at FSC

Wheel arches are finished and I think they look good





And the new steering wheel and boss



[Edited on 22/2/12 by jeffw]


flak monkey - 22/2/12 at 07:59 PM

Looking good Jeff, keep up the good work


jeffw - 22/2/12 at 08:46 PM

Thanks for your help mate...


supercat - 23/2/12 at 01:47 PM

Looks great Jeff. Where did you get the arch extensions?

James


Norfolkluegojnr - 23/2/12 at 02:04 PM

Very cool. Following with interest.....

Love the Intercooler install, very neat and tidy.

How are you inding it space wise? I have a striker and it was tight getting the standard engine in without all the bumf for the SC!


jeffw - 24/2/12 at 08:35 AM

The arch extensions came off ebay....I'll find the seller details if you want.


Space is tight, although Richard at Omex has this kit fitted to his Striker and RAW have it fitted to a Phoenix. We are having to mount the supercharger oil cooler on the driver side sidepod and the air filter down in the sidepod. It is the only place left where it will get cold(ish) air as there is no way of running a cold air feed from the front of the car.

Fury Sportscars are doing an excellent job and they have welded all the intercooler tubes so that we only need a silicon hose to join it at the supercharger and intercooler ends with no joins inbetween.

I'm also getting the GTiR plenum and the cam cover painted in a crinkle red finish like the 1960s Ferraris


tul214 - 24/2/12 at 01:00 PM

NTDWM but the arches are also available here


jeffw - 24/2/12 at 01:11 PM

Fury Sportscars are doing them now as well.


jeffw - 25/2/12 at 12:31 PM

Latest pictures....very close now



supercat - 27/2/12 at 02:34 PM

Thats a pretty impressive amount of stuff in the engine bay, looks great! Do you think the radiator will cope with the intercooler in front, looks quite thin?

James


jeffw - 27/2/12 at 02:56 PM

I honestly don't know. I have a couple of Radtec rads in the garage so if it doesn't then I'll change the Rad.


jeffw - 29/2/12 at 05:54 PM

Lots of things have been done (just can't see most of it) and here is the latest photo.

Bonnet is going back on these evening and then we just need a silicon hose for the supercharger inlet and some o-rings from Jenvey and we can fit everything back together. Looking at Saturday to get it running.


bi22le - 29/2/12 at 07:04 PM

Looking good then. I bet your like a kid at christmas, probably feels like when you first got the car and just want to drive!

Do you have 2 oil rads? One at the front middle and one behind front right wheel.

Is one for SC the other for the engine?


jeffw - 29/2/12 at 08:47 PM

The one by the front wheel is for the supercharger and the one in front of the intercooler is for the engine.

I really like my remote filter housing....odd but true



[Edited on 29/2/12 by jeffw]


matt_gsxr - 29/2/12 at 09:06 PM

Jeff,

Regarding cooling. I have the same arrangement as you (identical bonnet, rad and intercooler, very similar oil cooler).
I haven't been on the track yet and probably only make about 250bhp but I don't have overheating problems as yet.

My set-up includes a complete floor, but I have a few more bonnet vents to let the air out.

Just another datapoint.

You must be pretty excited now the weather has got warm just in time. Be careful it is still slippy out there.

Matt


jeffw - 2/3/12 at 03:07 PM

more pictures






beaver34 - 2/3/12 at 07:27 PM

looks great, what size intercooler pipework do you use?


jeffw - 2/3/12 at 07:59 PM

2.25" . Mainly because anything larger would be a pain to package plus it will reduce lag.


jeffw - 3/3/12 at 12:38 PM

The car is finished....except the base map and the the rolling road session. It is coming back to me on Monday and then it will need to go to ATSpeed to be mapped.




mabbs - 4/3/12 at 08:09 AM

Wow Jeff, good work. Cant wait to see how it performs. I have not recirculated the dump valve, dont think it will make much difference either way ? Good luck with the map runs - looking forward to see the power output.


jeffw - 4/3/12 at 09:22 AM

I prefer not to have the classic dump valve noise, hence the recirc valve (Audi 710N).

The car is off to ATSpeed on Monday to be mapped, including cold start, so it should be back tail end of the week. Starting to get excited now


jeffw - 9/3/12 at 08:59 AM

First power run (low boost and safe fuelling plus the cams are not optimised yet) Note this is wheel HP not crank. We have some issues which need to be worked through and hopefully the car will be hi-boost and mapped late next week.




[Edited on 9/3/12 by jeffw]


BaileyPerformance - 9/3/12 at 08:21 PM

Hi Jeff,

That's good power for 8PSI, can i ask what cams you are running?

I guess you will be running more boost at a later date, if so what power are you hoping for?

Cheers Dale.


jeffw - 9/3/12 at 08:34 PM

It's wheel power as well so about 265-270 at the crank. The engine has a CNC Head (ported/flowed/big valves etc) and their cams. Once the engine is upto 17-18 psi we should see 300ish at the wheels.


BaileyPerformance - 9/3/12 at 09:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
It's wheel power as well so about 265-270 at the crank. The engine has a CNC Head (ported/flowed/big valves etc) and their cams. Once the engine is upto 17-18 psi we should see 300ish at the wheels.


It's very good, we see around 240BHP and 250lb/ft (at crank) at 12PSI on our turbo conversions but we do not touch the engine, we use stock head, cams and inlet manifold - sometimes aftermarket rods and pistons depending on application. (250BHP been the limit on the stock cast pistons)

Can you find out the spec of the cams? would love to know timings.

We are building a full race turbo zetec at the moment, we are chancing our arm by using full race NA cams (something we have done with good results on other turbo engines) with lots of boost (30+PSI) to attempt to hit 500BHP on 98RON.

Looking at what you have achieved on low boost i would think my engine will make over 500BHP, the only question is will it stay in one piece!!!


jeffw - 9/3/12 at 09:41 PM

The cams have pretty much the maximum lift you can have before you would need to pocket the pistons but they have a lot of duration (over 300 deg if memory serves). The head will flow enough air to make 280BHP NA. The engine has forged pistons and rods now and is at 10:1. http://www.cncheads.co.uk/ford_zetec.html

The Omex kit which runs 8psi makes 220 crank on a stock Zetec with stock inlet so the engine in mine is 50BHP up on that with the same boost pressure. And this is before swinging the cams to optimise the settings.

Will be interesting at 1.1-1.2 bar.

[Edited on 9/3/12 by jeffw]


BaileyPerformance - 9/3/12 at 10:15 PM

Looks like Omex are going the same way as some of the Jap tuners, keep CR high, run NA style cams. This does seem to be the way to go, you are effectively building a NA race engine and adding forced induction as apposed to building a supercharged engine - if you see what i mean!

The only minor comment i have after looking again at your dyno printout is the lack of low down torque, i would imagine this will be sorted what the tuning is completed and boost raised, the SC doesn't seem to make much boost at lower revs, may get better when geared up.

Having said that great lumps of torque mite not be what you want in a light car!!


jeffw - 9/3/12 at 10:25 PM

Precisely. I went this way with the Rotrex to avoid turbo type torque low down. This is more a 'super' NA engine rather than a forced induction engine. It will still make 260-270 ft lbs and 150+ from 2500rpm.


BaileyPerformance - 9/3/12 at 10:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Precisely. I went this way with the Rotrex to avoid turbo type torque low down. This is more a 'super' NA engine rather than a forced induction engine. It will still make 260-270 ft lbs and 150+ from 2500rpm.


Yep, should be nice and drivable.
We did a turbo zetec in a Fiesta a couple of weeks ago, stock head, cams, plastic inlet. It made 270BHP at 4500RPM(would rev to 7000RPM but no more power) and 320lb/ft at 4000RPM.
This engine was built by the owner, to "old school" spec, 8.0/CR, cosworth T34 turbo and lots of boost. Very impressive on the dyno but virtually undrivable on the road, it would light up the tyres in 4th gear!!

I prefer a more consistent power delivery, i enjoy mapping and driving V8s as the lazy power looks boring on the dyno but is often faster on the road. My own car is a procharger rover V8, great to drive.


jeffw - 10/3/12 at 07:16 AM

My 'other' car till recently was a Audi RS4 which was running 530BHP (at vast expense). That V6 would do 29psi at 5000rpm dropping to 24psi at red line. The Rotrex makes maximum boost at the redline. And this is essentially the difference between the Turbo car with a big spike of torque (max torque on the RS4 is around 4250rpm) low down compared with the almost flat torque curve on the Rotrex. I think the Rotrex system is ideally suited to light cars....but I haven't driven it yet


mabbs - 10/3/12 at 09:17 AM

Good news Jeff, well on target. I assume you are controlling boost with the supercharger pulley wheel ? Will you be running the 85mm for max boost at 7000 RPM ?

I have had my engine fully balanced so will try running up to 8000 RPM to see if their is any advantage, but will need to increase the pully diameter so as not to overspeed the supercharger.

I have pocketed my pistons and had the block machined to reduce the squish clearence, but no work to the head (apart from a little tinkering to the exhaust side of the standard cam). I have been told the profile on standard cams are very good for forced induction, but this means I have just to maximise the cams and port the head for future mods - no engine out.

Look forward to the high boost runs !!

[Edited on 10/3/12 by mabbs]


jeffw - 10/3/12 at 09:44 AM

The pulley is 95mm currently. There well maybe a boost leak as this was the first power run.

Are you not using the Omex pistons and rods then? Raising the CR on a stock engne might not be a good idea....

[Edited on 10/3/12 by jeffw]


mabbs - 10/3/12 at 10:10 AM

Yes, sorry I am running 10:1 CR. I had mine made by JE pistons and the rods are made by PEC before Omex supplied them. I have had pockets machined into the pistons, so to keep the CR the same, have had the block decked. Yes sorry, 95mm pully does not overspeed the supercharger at 7000rpm. I may have to increase to 100mm if running at 8000rpm which may give better top end power but will loose maybe 5 bhp through the range. Will have to find out !!


jeffw - 10/3/12 at 02:24 PM

Be interesting to see how it compares to mine when it is completed.


jeffw - 12/3/12 at 08:16 PM

So the RAW Hi-Boost Supercharged Zetec Phoenix (as featured in CKC) is being mapped by Richard of Omex on Wednesday of this week....be interesting to see what that makes on a stock head. Mine should be back on the rollers Wed/Thursday so both of the Omex Supercharged Zetec engined Phoenixes (never know what the plural of Phoenix is...) should be complete this week.

I'm going to make the effort to do the Llandow CKC/Omex trackday in May so we can see the two SC Phoenixes on the same track.


nick205 - 12/3/12 at 09:29 PM

Looking great Jeff

I've been following the thread, but hadn't looked for a while.


jeffw - 15/3/12 at 12:40 PM

Interesting stuff....The RAW car made pretty much the same power as mine has done, but on 12psi rather than 9psi that I had, last night on Omex's Dyno. The Zetec in the 'other' Phoenix has the stock head and a stage 1 cam. Omex are going to change the pulley on the RAW car and, when that is mapped, Richard at Omex will have the extra information needed to make the decision on pulley and belt for mine to get it upto 350-360BHP.

All this means that there doesn't appear to be an inherent issue with the belt and it means that mine doesn't have a big boost leak.

So it will be.....next week ! I seem to be saying that a lot recently.


jeffw - 22/3/12 at 06:05 PM

So...it turns out I've bought a crap intercooler which is dropping 6psi over it and it can't keep the inlet temp down under 40 deg. So new intercooler is going to be the priority but....

250HP and 200 ft lb at the wheels on 8.7psi is pretty good. That equates to 290BHP and 235 ft lb at the crank.


coozer - 22/3/12 at 06:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw




Getting close to being ready. Really neat intercooler mounting by the boys at FSC

Wheel arches are finished and I think they look good





And the new steering wheel and boss



[Edited on 22/2/12 by jeffw]


GET SOME COVERS ON THAT CAMBELT!!


jeffw - 22/3/12 at 06:50 PM

Nope....not happening.


coozer - 22/3/12 at 07:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Nope....not happening.


Ok, you'll be sorry when that left hand tensioner lets go and that little metal tang snaps off and makes the belt jump.....


jeffw - 22/3/12 at 07:22 PM

Yeap....I will. But since that is inside any belt cover already how does your suggestion help at all?

[Edited on 22/3/12 by jeffw]


coozer - 22/3/12 at 07:51 PM

The cover is snug and when it lets go you'll hear it and the bits wont fly around all over the place.. common fault with blacktop tensioners on boosted motors.


mabbs - 22/3/12 at 08:16 PM

Thats a lot to lose just over the intercooler but figures are superb anyway. I have gone charge cooled due to being transverese. I hope the flow through the unit is OK as it was custom built and cost a bit !!




Currently plumbing it all in to get it ready for the RR week after next - fingers crossed !

[Edited on 22/3/12 by mabbs]


jeffw - 22/3/12 at 08:19 PM

No but they will be contained in the belt area where they can cause chaos...


jeffw - 22/3/12 at 08:23 PM

I was wondering about charge cooling as there appears to be only a 0.5psi drop on some of them.

Obviously mine needs to be worked on a bit more but I'm 85HP up...at the wheels compared with the engine NA.....not bad for a start. In fact it makes more now at 4500 rpm than it did at 7500 before.


jeffw - 24/3/12 at 10:51 PM

Picked the car up today. It made 250hp at the wheels and 200 ft lb. There are significant pressure losses on the intercooler (6psi) which reduced the boost at peak power to 8.7psi. There is also some more boost to come from the pulley size and dropping it (around 5psi). So with a decent intercooler and a pulley change we should get the car to 300 Wheel hp (around 340BHP).



It needs bigger tyres !


dlatch - 24/3/12 at 11:07 PM

really love the upgrades jeff
i also tend to agree the way the supercharger delivers the power will make it much more use able in a light weight car.

we will require trackday footage though just to confirm this


jeffw - 25/3/12 at 06:03 AM

It is a little 'traction limited' in the first 3 gears....I need larger tyres

My first sprint it next Sunday so should get some footage then.


jeffw - 25/3/12 at 04:29 PM

Three steps forward...two steps back. Did some work on the car this morning and then went for the first proper drive...

The dipstick is being blown out of tube (not completely but clear of the o-rings which is putting a fine mist of oil onto the exhaust under full boost....so that needs fixing. Which is slightly better than what I thought was going in when there was smoke coming out from under the bonnet under boost !!!
The whining noise from last year which I thought was the gearbox and should have been fixed....isn't : . It appears to be the diff and it is making a racket Need to get it fixed, probable the CWP needs replacing.


But....by god its quick !!!!!!!!!!!

[Edited on 25/3/12 by jeffw]

[Edited on 25/3/12 by jeffw]


beaver34 - 25/3/12 at 05:08 PM

Sounds great fun, little issues no worrie sorting them

What size wheels and tyres are on the back?


beaver34 - 25/3/12 at 05:08 PM

Sounds great fun, little issues no worrie sorting them

What size wheels and tyres are on the back?


jeffw - 25/3/12 at 06:15 PM

205/60 13" at the moment.


jeffw - 2/4/12 at 05:38 AM

North Weald Sprint yesterday and the first proper run. Car was OK.....ish.

Nursing some issues through the day, oil being blown out of the dipstick being the most obvious. It appears the engine has been over-filled with oil and, on boost, it is forcing it out of the dipstick rather than into the catch tank. I need to drain the overfill and sort out a new catch tank.

The other issue appears to be the lift pump can't keep up with the demands of the 690cc injectors and the Bosch 044R pump so that the Bosch runs noisy and it cut out straight after one run. I need to look at the Facet pump and any filters to make sure it is moving enough fuel upto the swirl pot. Must say I am tempted to get a new tank and fit the high pressure pump in the tank which would do away with a lot of needless pots/hose/pumps etc.

The remaining two issues where less serious. Number one was I was taking it easy as the Phoenix never likes the bumps at NW with the live axle and number two is the tyres....I need a set of Avon ZZRs in A24 compound. Anyway ...9th overall with a 88.27sec but 3rd in class having been beaten by Steven Laing in his Caterham R500 with sequential box on ZZRs (85.11 and 1st in class) and Paul Bowden ( Caterham R400 also on ZZRs 85.57). Paul did a 83.94 in practise and then had a series of wrong routes.

So pleased and annoyed/depreased in equal measure. Video below but with no datalogging this time.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RriQYyrM2NA&feature=youtu.be


Norfolkluegojnr - 2/4/12 at 08:12 AM

Jeff...

Was that a Borough 19 sprint you were at? Only reason I ask is me and the Old Man sprint his luego with B19, and i'll pop over next time if you are about.....


Norfolkluegojnr - 2/4/12 at 08:22 AM

Ah just checked the vid, it was the Sevenoaks and District one.

If you cross paths with the B19 ones, look out for a red and yellow velocity. come and say hi!


jeffw - 2/4/12 at 06:13 PM

Back to NW on the 21st (I think) which is a B19 one?


jeffw - 6/5/12 at 08:26 PM

A good day today at Debden although with mixed weather.

I ended up 2nd in class with a 67.x sec run, 7th overall and was beaten by Paul Bowden (by 1 sec) and some single seaters. First real competitive run for the Supercharged Phoenix, 2nd run I was running out of fuel on the last few corners and the third run I outbraked myself into the roundabout (always a sign you haven't done your best time when you have to select reverse during a run !).

http://youtu.be/QiwYVg4m7uA

[Edited on 6/5/12 by jeffw]


T66 - 6/5/12 at 08:37 PM

Isnt this it ? red Fury at Stoneleigh


jeffw - 6/5/12 at 08:41 PM

Nope....

That is the Raw Phoenix which has the same Omex kit on it as mine does...so there are two Red Phoenix(es) with supercharged zetecs in them


T66 - 6/5/12 at 09:11 PM

Roger - I am not current with the names of kits, and mix up the similar Fury shape cars easily, as its the only one of that style I know.


garybee - 6/5/12 at 09:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Nope....

That is the Raw Phoenix which has the same Omex kit on it as mine does...so there are two Red Phoenix(es) with supercharged zetecs in them


They're getting a bit common aren't they?


beaver34 - 6/5/12 at 09:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
A good day today at Debden although with mixed weather.

I ended up 2nd in class with a 67.x sec run, 7th overall and was beaten by Paul Bowden (by 1 sec) and some single seaters. First real competitive run for the Supercharged Phoenix, 2nd run I was running out of fuel on the last few corners and the third run I outbraked myself into the roundabout (always a sign you haven't done your best time when you have to select reverse during a run !).

http://youtu.be/QiwYVg4m7uA

[Edited on 6/5/12 by jeffw]


Looks good, what wheel and tyre size are you running now?


PAUL FISHER - 6/5/12 at 09:46 PM

Thats goes well


jeffw - 7/5/12 at 05:24 AM

It does go well....100mph in 3rd ! Still on low boost mode so once the extra 50-60BHP appear we should be a little further on. Looking back at my previous Debden data the car is 15mph faster at peak speed to my 210BHP NA engine.

The tyre size on the rear is 215/55 13" Avon ZZRs.


jeffw - 7/5/12 at 01:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by garybee
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Nope....

That is the Raw Phoenix which has the same Omex kit on it as mine does...so there are two Red Phoenix(es) with supercharged zetecs in them


They're getting a bit common aren't they?


Common as muck


HowardB - 7/5/12 at 03:02 PM

interesting as they claim 310ish with an intercooler, and 350ish with a charge cooler,.. so there is something there too,..


jeffw - 8/5/12 at 05:25 AM

Yes indeed. Omex have been doing a lot of work on the Raw car recently (Engine dyno, different heads/cams/intercoolers etc) and have settled on an engine specification which best supports the Rotrex kit.

I need to change my intercooler, which is very inefficient, for either a better intercooler or a charge cooler. This will gain back something of the 6psi loss currently through the intercooler and then we can reduce the supercharger pulley size so that we hit max supercharge rpm at max engine rpm. This will give us another 2-3psi. With these two modifications alone it should go from 9psi at max rpm (250HP at the wheels) to 14-15 psi at the plenum which should see the engine up towards the 300HP at the wheels. If we then skim the head to give 11:1 compression ration and the new, bespoke, cams that Omex have developed it will be well into the 300s at the wheels. Maybe even 350-370 at the crank.

These things always evolve....


supercat - 8/5/12 at 02:51 PM

Jeff - apologies if it has already been mentioned on the thread - what gearbox are you using with the engine? Type 9?

Cheers,
James


jeffw - 8/5/12 at 03:17 PM

BGH HD Type 9. Which is good for 250(ish) ft lb


jeffw - 29/6/12 at 02:00 PM

Just dropped the pulley by 10mm and it now runs 310BHP & 240 ft lb. Still have a lot of losses on the intercooler which will be the next thing to resolve...


mabbs - 29/6/12 at 04:23 PM

Hi Jeff,

What maximum RPM are you running ? I beleive the Rotrex supercharger is designed to run at a maximum 100,000 RPM and with the engine running at 7500 rpm with the pulley diameter at 95mm (which is what it has been designed to run at) it is just over the limit at 104,000 RPM. If you are dropping the pulley diameter to 85mm, the supercharger will be heavily overspun at an engine speed of 7500 RPM (I think it works out at about 140,000 RPM) and I have been told the supercharger will not last very long - I looked into doing this also but was advised not to. Have you done something different to support this or running lower maximum engine RPM ?


jeffw - 29/6/12 at 07:27 PM

Rev limit is down to 7100 which works out to be 101K on the supercharger. My cams are done and dusted at 7100-7200 so not an issue although as you can see from the spreadsheet 90mm maybe the way to go.




[Edited on 29/6/12 by jeffw]


jeffw - 16/8/12 at 08:15 AM

Found this from a trackside viewer at Goodwood...I'm at 46 secs

]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqo8y7cNb8Q&feature=related


And the onboard is here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btdsAE_vGYg&list=UUyjCHSGwXhVEXz3hsQuAlAw&index=1&feature=plcp


[Edited on 16/8/12 by jeffw]


loggyboy - 16/8/12 at 09:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Found this from a trackside viewer at Goodwood...I'm at 46 secs



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqo8y7cNb8Q&feature=player_detailpage#t=45s


jeffw - 16/8/12 at 09:57 AM

Thanks


maccmike - 16/8/12 at 10:09 AM

love the flames hehehe. looks well..


jeffw - 16/8/12 at 10:16 AM

I didn't realise it did it after only one lap, I though it was heat related.


jeffw - 10/11/12 at 06:40 AM

After the idler and tensioner failure and the 3rd gear being stripped (box has been rebuilt as a BGH E8 now) the car is running. When the head was off to replaced the bent valves they discovered the clearances where set at 2 thou and not 10 thou. All these where reset and the engine now revs much faster (!) and makes 300BHP at the wheels....which is why 3rd gear stripped.




A very wet Abbeville last weekend. Car was wheelspinning in any gear with more than 1/2 throttle. Does show how easy it is to drive on part throttle though. Make sure you switch to 1080p...watch me almost put it in the gravel on hte first lap and all the MX-5s drifting.

[Edited on 10/11/12 by jeffw]