omega 24 v6
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| posted on 15/5/10 at 08:23 PM |
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sounds familiar to me that does Revved well in the garage BUT NOT on the road
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 15/5/10 at 08:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jacko
Saying you live in Norfolk why don't you take it to Bogg's and have it set up in stead of messing about
When i fitted my bike carbs it ran straight a way right though the rev range but at Boggs they blocked some holes to stop the carbs / fuel /air going
week at high revs + lifted the main neddles
Jacko
Bogg Brothers are not exactly just around the corner from here, it would mean a day off work plus trailering the car up the A47 and then the dreaded
A17, towing with the Pajero doesn't come cheap, it binge drinks diesel, then there's their fees on top of all of that, that would be one
expensive day out, it's a bit of a mare of a journey from here, I do it quite regularly (oldest son lives in Wigginton just north of York) but
in a car and not towing, even then the A17 is the stuff of nightmares, wall to wall artics and single carriageway almost all the way to the A1 at
Newark and a near 400 mile round trip.
I might end up having to go to Bogg Brothers, I'm sure they'd sort it but it not my first choice, not yet anyway
[Edited on 15/5/10 by norfolkluego]
[Edited on 15/5/10 by norfolkluego]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 15/5/10 at 08:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego
quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego
We are running a trigger wheel and the sensor bracket does seem pretty firm but I'll see if it could be better, maybe brace it to stop any high
rev vibration
how far away is the sensor from the trigger wheel ?
It's pretty close, certainly within their 1-3mm suggested range
from what I can tell folk seem to have the best results with it near the 1mm ond of that
can you bend/ flex the braket with your fingers ?
-
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 15/5/10 at 09:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
from what I can tell folk seem to have the best results with it near the 1mm ond of that
can you bend/ flex the braket with your fingers ?
To be honest we're probably nearer the 3mm than the 1mm, I think the suggestion about having the laptop plugged in when the problem happens
(somebody in the passenger seat obviously) and seeing what the MJ thinks the rpm is at that point seems to be the easiest way to see if bracket is the
problem, at least that's a logical way of ruling out (or confirming) one potential cause of the problem
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deltron63
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| posted on 15/5/10 at 09:51 PM |
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this site should help
http://www.totalvauxhall.co.uk/resources/totalvauxhall/TOV64.tech60697.pdf
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 15/5/10 at 10:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by deltron63
this site should help
http://www.totalvauxhall.co.uk/resources/totalvauxhall/TOV64.tech60697.pdf
Interesting link, don't think I'll start pulling the carbs apart until I've ruled out all of the other (easier to fix) stuff though
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RazMan
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| posted on 16/5/10 at 09:08 AM |
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Sounds like it might be a main jet problem to me. If idle and midrange are relatively ok then idle jets and needles are pretty much set up correctly.
Main jets start to take over in the mid-to-upper rev range until WOT.
Can you coax it above 4500rpm by playing with the throttle or is it more like hitting a rev limiter? (which would suggest electrical probs)
Have you spoken to Bogg Bros? Maybe they simply cover their arses by bunging really rich main jets in until they get the car on the rollers.
[Edited on 16-5-10 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 16/5/10 at 09:08 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego
Interestingly (and not sure what it means, if anything) when 'the problem' starts to happen at 4500 if you dip the clutch and floor the
throttle it revs straight past 4500 with no problem, right up to the (our) red line of 6500
Before I gear up for another go, wouldn't the above seem to rule out the crank sensor
We're going to test it anyway but seems to be connected somehow to the engine being under load
Revs no problem on the drive
In gear on the road problem at 4500, dip clutch same revs no problem, off clutch pedal, problem back
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flak monkey
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| posted on 16/5/10 at 09:52 AM |
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Sounds like its running out of fuel to me. From your description I am assuming it just will not rev under load over 4500rpm.
I wouldnt worry aboutbthe restriction of the fuel filter, a 6mm bore hose will flow enough fuel for 800bhp! (why people insist on fitting 10mm hose I
will never know!)
I also agree your VR sensor needs to be as close as possible to the trigger wheel. 1mm max.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 16/5/10 at 10:48 AM |
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quote:
Can you coax it above 4500rpm by playing with the throttle or is it more like hitting a rev limiter? (which would suggest electrical probs)
Have you spoken to Bogg Bros? Maybe they simply cover their arses by bunging really rich main jets in until they get the car on the rollers.
[Edited on 16-5-10 by RazMan]
If you keep your right foot down it does increase revs (and speed) but more slowly and sounds rough (can't describe it any better than that,
just doesn't sound right)
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 16/5/10 at 10:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Sounds like its running out of fuel to me. From your description I am assuming it just will not rev under load over 4500rpm.
Spot on, that's exactly it, but it's probably reluctant to rev/struggles to rev rather than will not
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 16/5/10 at 12:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego
quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego
Interestingly (and not sure what it means, if anything) when 'the problem' starts to happen at 4500 if you dip the clutch and floor the
throttle it revs straight past 4500 with no problem, right up to the (our) red line of 6500
Before I gear up for another go, wouldn't the above seem to rule out the crank sensor
Possibly - although I'd bet that the engine is vibrating a lot more when under full load!
I'd start with dropping the VR sensor gap to 1 mm - while you're there, try and waggle the sensor mount, and make sure it's fastened
properly.
Another thought - with my car, it wouldn't go much above 4000 rpm after fitting bike carbs, because it was far to rich at WOT. I reduced the
size of the main jets and it all came together nicely. That's really a rolling road job though.
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craig_007
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| posted on 16/5/10 at 12:28 PM |
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You any idea what mains are in your carbs ?
I was running 160s and it was slighty over fuelling and that was on a 1.9 mi16 Peugeot engine.
I'm down to 150 mains now and the top end is good from 4000 rpm up to 7000+ rpm
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 16/5/10 at 12:39 PM |
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I followed everyone's guidance on here, and drilled the main jets to 1.6mm - after some work with an AFR meter the main jets were reduced to
1.3mm.
In my case the plugs were quite black and sooty if I cut the power and checked after attempting a full-throttle blast - in fact they were quite sooty
most of the time.
Now they're the classic biscuit colour... (and I know that's a poor way of checking, before anyone says it)
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 16/5/10 at 03:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
I followed everyone's guidance on here, and drilled the main jets to 1.6mm - after some work with an AFR meter the main jets were reduced to
1.3mm.
In my case the plugs were quite black and sooty if I cut the power and checked after attempting a full-throttle blast - in fact they were quite sooty
most of the time.
Now they're the classic biscuit colour... (and I know that's a poor way of checking, before anyone says it)
That's interesting. We had black and sooty plugs on 1 and 4 but a nice biscuit colour on 2 and 3, that's why we changed the coilpack as I
assumed we just had a weak spark on 1 and 4, I've just popped out and checked and they're still the same even with the different coilpack,
2 and 3 are a perfect biscuit colour, 1 and 4 black, dry black, not oily black.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 16/5/10 at 04:00 PM |
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For a start, I think I'd be happier if all the plugs were the same colour - even if it was the wrong one!
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 16/5/10 at 04:34 PM |
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So, assuming all the carbs have been jetted the same would that indicate I still have a poor spark on cylinders 1 and 4 at high revs, that is I still
have a dodgy coilpack (both coil packs were bought secondhand off eBay but the leads are new)
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FASTdan
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| posted on 16/5/10 at 05:22 PM |
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Have the carbs been balanced?
I'd have thought if they were that out of balance it'd be rough everywhere but worth checking?
NEW danST WEBSITE NOW LIVE! Bike carbs, throttle bodies and more......
http://www.danstengineering.co.uk/
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 16/5/10 at 10:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by FASTdan
Have the carbs been balanced?
I'd have thought if they were that out of balance it'd be rough everywhere but worth checking?
Not sure if BB balanced them (think so) but I've got a syphg......er carb balancer sucky thing so I'll give it a quick check.
Think is it's perfect up to 4500 so I can't see it's that
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 17/5/10 at 06:12 PM |
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Well I can rule out a balance problem, just checked and carbs pretty much spot on equal at 4000 (and all the way up).
Still wondering about this difference in the plug colour and if I've got another dodgy coil pack, is there anyway of 'bench testing'
a coil pack to see if it's working correctly, I'm on the verge of buying a brand new one just to rule it out (maybe I'm just getting
fixated on it)
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will121
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| posted on 17/5/10 at 07:06 PM |
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Hi, ive got spare coil packs, a Webcon 2D base maped zetec ignition ecu, a narow band Lamba gauge and insight into fitted bike carbs fitted to my CVH
which runs fine, you are welcome to borrow any of it, as local give me a shout could possible pop over one evening, with a box of bits and
inspiration.
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 17/5/10 at 09:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by will121
Hi, ive got spare coil packs, a Webcon 2D base maped zetec ignition ecu, a narow band Lamba gauge and insight into fitted bike carbs fitted to my CVH
which runs fine, you are welcome to borrow any of it, as local give me a shout could possible pop over one evening, with a box of bits and
inspiration.
Will, I'll take you up on that offer, I'll drop you a U2U
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deltron63
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| posted on 19/5/10 at 08:10 PM |
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any news on the problem yet?
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coozer
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| posted on 19/5/10 at 09:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
bogg bros only ever set up carbs to get the car running...not set them up to any level of perfection.
you just need to rolling road the car - thats something that everyone with a set of bike carbs has to do?
[Edited on 15/5/10 by cd.thomson]
As usual I'm late here..
Craig, that's not right, Bogg Brothers (Dave) sets the carbs up for best AFR right across the whole range. He uses a rolling road with EGA to
determine best setup.
I had exactly the same problem.. heres a bit of history, go get a can or a cuppa....
I built mine up with ZX9R carbs. I got them off ebag with a Dyno jet kit installed. Well I think it had a dynojet as the air bleed hole was blocked
and it had needles with multi grooves.
Anyway, before SVA I did a track day and had a bit of fettling, overheating was the first problem and then not revving over 4K was the next.
I spent all day hooning round the track fiddling with needles, air screw position etc and came to the conclusion the main jet was too small. No drills
around to try out the theory.
Went to SVA and passed emissions (just mind!) Still no revs over 4K.
Took it to Bogg Brothers and Dave sorted it out. The main jet was too small and the needles needed lifting. Then if revved out and fuel economy went
up to 40 if I didn't flog it!
So, in essence it sounds like the mains are too small ( they account for the last 3/4 of the throttle) and I think Bogg Brothers is your best bet. I
travelled 85 miles to them and it was worth every penny IMO!
LG,
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 08:17 PM |
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Gentlemen, I would like to award the Locostbuilders Medal of Honour to will121 who gave up his evening (and a beautiful evening it was here in
Norfolk) to help us sort out our problem. Turns out the main jets were miles too big (hence the black plugs). He even lent us a set of jets out of his
carbs to take it out on a test drive. Luegojunior came back with a big smile and using lots of swear words that basically meant 'my that's
quick' and no misfires. Whipped the plugs out for a quick look, plugs 1 and 4 now perfect, 2 and 3 verging on lean so may go up 1 jet size just
to get it even better.
Will, thanks A LOT
Why doesn't the rest of the country work like Locost, it would be a lot better
[Edited on 20/5/10 by norfolkluego]
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