DavidM
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| posted on 15/4/05 at 08:30 PM |
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That's better!
I would have no objections to ID cards if a single politician could tell me how that would prevent anything in the world happening.
I believe many of the countries in the developed world have ID cards, so it's clear to see how well they work to prevent terrorism and crime.
If they want to squeeze another £70 out of me, that is fine if they are going to spend it on something that would make a difference. For instance, to
increase the number of anti terrorist officers, immigration officers, or benefit fraud investigators.
I suppose if I refuse to carry one I will be criminalised too.
Proportion is Everything
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andyps
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| posted on 15/4/05 at 09:41 PM |
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One question I have which no one has answered though - how will they know it really is me who is applying for an ID card to prove I am me??
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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flak monkey
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| posted on 15/4/05 at 09:43 PM |
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I am assuming they would be issued by government. Ie done from official records. No application required as i think they would be compulsory....
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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JoelP
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| posted on 15/4/05 at 09:43 PM |
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and that leads on to the next question - who IS the real you?! 
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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andyps
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| posted on 15/4/05 at 09:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
and that leads on to the next question - who IS the real you?!
Haven't got a clue.
So who should I be on the card?
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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andkilde
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| posted on 16/4/05 at 02:29 PM |
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An outsiders view...
I'm against unnecessary intrusions into my privacy.
All well and good to say you've nothing to hide, I'm sure we all scrupulously obey the speed limit to the last MPH, claim all the ebay
sales we make on our taxes, never cross the border home with a half a packet of foreign tobacco...
There simply comes a point when it none of the "jack-booted arsehole's" business what I've been up to. Freedom and liberty
mean something, life without them is pretty pointless IMHO.
Add in the commercial misuses of private data and it's simply a no-brainer.
Yes, we make choices every day which compromise our privacy, carrying the mobile phone, using a transponder for road and bridge tolls, using a credit
or debit card --- BUT --- they are OUR choices.
I thought being stopped in the street and forced to show your papers went out with the Gestapo?!?
Cheers, Ted
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kaymar
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| posted on 17/4/05 at 12:06 AM |
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mmmmmmmmm i remember smoking my first fag? as in cigarette not!!! well you know p/c and all that i was about eleven and was hidden around the back ot
the local council yard inside a bloody hut with a few mates, and when i got home the old man wolloped me cause the lady across the road tole him????
how i was at least 2 miles away. thing was every one new everyone,were they nosey or just looking out for each other and there kin? THATS WHAT
WE HAVE LOST
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craig1410
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| posted on 17/4/05 at 08:14 AM |
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Hi,
A big thumbs down to ID cards from me too!!!!
Look at it this way - It's already far too easy to gather enough information together to carry out identity theft, we all have to shred every
piece of official documentation in case someone digs it out of our bins while we sleep.
So, how nice of the government to gather all the juicy bits of our identification together into one place along with all our biometric information and
then use this potentially to decide whether we are "good" or "bad", "citizen" or "terrorist",
"free" or locked up! I for one don't fancy having to provide an alibi for a crime every few months just because someone with similar
fingerprint/dna/iris committed rape or murder!
Of course it will be well implemented and highly secure and there will be no chance of a systems failure or unauthorised access will there???? Just
like every other Government implemented piece of information technology.... I suppose the upside is that it will take so long to implement that it may
never actually happen but the downside is that they will spend billions of our hard earned cash before they realise this!!
Personally I prefer Michael Howard's stance on crime and enjoyed his proposals about making the Yob's fear the police again by getting
"in their face." Like most things, it is just common sense which is required.
I'd rather die a free man than live under lock and key, even if it was a terrorist who were to cause my death!
Cheers,
Craig.
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Ian Pearson
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| posted on 17/4/05 at 09:34 AM |
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quote:
On a more serious note Fred in port Elizabeth will back me that they are a pain to carry. If they get wet its a new book and all the paper work to go
with it. The were quite big as well so the dam things filled wallet and pocket. Now being in Africa you carry your gun as well as a cell phone its
kinda crowded in your pockets
The SA ID (Book Of Life) is a little more cumbersome than a credit card size ID. Never carried a hand gun anywhere in Africa. Things can be dangerous
in both parts of Africa that I've lived ( 20 years in East Africa & S.Africa), but carrying a gun is something I'd personally feel
uneasy doing.
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craig1410
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| posted on 17/4/05 at 11:02 PM |
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Ian,
I think the key requirement, besides the legality, when considering carrying a gun is being absolutely sure you are both trained to use it and capable
of using it. "Trained" and "Capable" are very different things when it comes to using lethal force...
Cheers,
Craig.
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Ian Pearson
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| posted on 18/4/05 at 09:17 AM |
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Craig,
No dispute on the "Trained AND Capable" aspect of owning, carrying and using a gun. Common sense really.
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ChrisJLW
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| posted on 18/4/05 at 10:56 AM |
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The security of the information would be a big issue for me. Bets on it would be on a Windows system and full of holes!
I've lived a life that's full.
I've traveled each and ev'ry highway.
But more, much more than this,
I did it side-ah-ways.
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Monkey Man
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| posted on 18/4/05 at 01:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andkilde
. Freedom and liberty mean something, life without them is pretty pointless IMHO.
...
I thought being stopped in the street and forced to show your papers went out with the Gestapo?!?
Cheers, Ted
Hear hear. I can't agree more. People seem to think there will be benefits to having an ID card. I don't see them. It's illegal for
people who do not hold a UK passport to enter the country. An ID card will help immigration how?
The people who enter illegally already don't have a passport why would they go to the bother of getting an ID card so the government can track
them?
The same goes for terrorists.
As for crime the system we have now seems pretty good. Most people don't commit violent crime so why do we need everybodies details for this? We
already get the details of people who are caught and the police keep their details. If you introduce ID cards with fingerprins on them people will
simply commit crimes wearing gloves and you're back to square one.
There are no convincing reasons to use an id card. There are convincing reasons not to have them. Mis use of data being the most obvious and followed
by the perfectly valid, if slightly paranoid, abuse of power by the government to suppress free speech etc.
It is up to the government to present a compelling case (by which I mean one that is actually true) for ID cards it is not up to us to say why they
are bad.
I don't see the need to give the government any more power than they already have. What do they need it for? As lord Acton said
"Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end...liberty is the only object which benefits all alike,
and provokes no sincere opposition...The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to to govern. Every class is unfit to govern...Power tends
to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
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Alez
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| posted on 18/4/05 at 01:57 PM |
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We Spaniards have both ID card and lots more terrorists than you. The measure is useless to say the least.
"People who would give up their Freedom for security deserve neither" -Benjamin Franklin
[Edited on 18/4/05 by Alez]
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Spyderman
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| posted on 18/4/05 at 05:10 PM |
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Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Why should I have to prove who I am?
If a crime is commited it is up to the LAW to find evidence and persue the guilty party! It is not everyone else's responsibility to prove their
innocence!
There are far too many miscarriages of justice already without adding the guilty until proven innocent regime of the current government.
As already stated many times an ID card does not prove your innocence, but does supply another means to implicate innocent parties by theft, fraud or
coincidence.
I see a lot of complaining about liberties being taken with regards to our motoring (speed cameras, etc). Do you really believe that carrying an ID
card will improve things?
When you are being stopped for random checks on foot as well as motoring and are hauled away for questioning when you forget to pick up your ID on the
way out of the house, you might start to think differently.
All new rules and regulations are open for abuse by those above and below the LAW.
In a country where law breakers have more rights than victims is this really to our benefit?
I think not! 
Terry
Spyderman
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 19/4/05 at 06:22 PM |
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http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=172060&f=42&h=0
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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