locosttroubles
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 12:15 AM |
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HELP! Whats the best 2.0 engine to fit?
Hi all, first time here. Basically i'm at the beginning of welding a chassis based on the Haynes Roadster book. I had hoped (dreamed) to use a
Hayabusa or a V8 (wildest dreams!) engine but money and practicality has pushed me towards something like a two litre ford. Don't know much
about Ford engines but see plenty of dura this and ze that for smallish money on ebay. I want something with plenty of grunt and noise, very very
quick, reliable and tunable too (possibly fit a turbo down the line). Any ideas or help GREATLY recieved! Thanks!
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 12:29 AM |
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Woh woh woh, there...
Don't be so quick to wander away from the Bike engine my friend!!! 
An older Blade/R1, will still impress a lot more than an older ford engine, mostly because of the gear change and revving the nuts off it aspect!
What's your budget for build and engine?
ATB
(And welcome to the forum by the way...)
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blakep82
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 12:42 AM |
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i like vauxhalls 
red tops are good, loads of power to be had, loads of tuning bits out there for them
ecotecs are the exact same block (so fitting to type 9 gearboxes is simple) similar power to the red top to be had. but not as many tuning parts
available (though there is a LOT more now than there was when i bought my ecotec)
bike engines, meh, i don't know, yeah they are pretty powerful, small, sound good at high revs, not sure i could live with one if i had to drive
too far in it (only driven one once)
ford engines are good too you can probably get more power out them than the vauxhalls, but i'm not sure which ones and by how much more.
I'd go for vauxhall, tried and tested
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 01:05 AM |
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As Steve says - if the budget doesnt stretch to a Busa then why not an R1 / blade / ZX9R etc?? 1/4 of the price or less and dont need expensive sump
changes - just a £40 baffle plate. Not exactly a great deal of performance difference either!!
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locosttroubles
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 01:28 AM |
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thanks for all the info and the welcome, much appreciated. after shelling out for a good welder i'm left with nearly £2000 for an engine,
currently! this car is going to be a very regular runner for me so just need something a little, well, everyday, know what i mean? as much as i love
what bike engines can do, i'm not sure i could listen to one everyday, no offence, because my dream track car is a turbo hayabusa 7 (drool) just
maybe next time. never thought about vauxhall (thay're opels over here) but will def look into that now, thanks. am i right in saying that
pretty much any size of engine within reason, will fit in? its just a noise thing, LOVE big V8 sound, can listen to that all day! thanks again all.
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cooke80
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 06:16 AM |
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If you like the sound of the v8, have you considered a 5 cylinder engine such as a volvo or an audi unit (i think fiat did one to but it was fwd)
because a 5 cylinder engine does a good impression of a v8.
I'm looking into the left field choice of a nissan primera engine, 125-150 bhp as standard depending on spec and tundable to 180ish with cams,
manifold and exhaust. Just need to find a way to mount it to a type 9 box
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l0rd
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 06:20 AM |
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S2000
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iank
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 07:21 AM |
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To answer the question:
2.0 Zetec is cheapest to install
2.0 Red Top is probably cheaper if you want a 200bhp. (See NS Dev's posts)
On the BEC/CEC war that is brewing with boring inevitability.
Remember BEC's will need a reverse for IVA. Getting a BEC to 200bhp is a very expensive exercise.
Have ride in both as BECs are addictive in a marmite kind of a way, certainly not for everyone or best suited to all roles.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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flak monkey
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 07:43 AM |
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If you have £2k to spend on an engine, go for a duratec! Now fitting one to mine, have a look on my website for details.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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mookaloid
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 08:10 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
If you have £2k to spend on an engine, go for a duratec!
Couldn't agree more
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 08:12 AM |
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Duratec without a shadow of doubt: all alloy, loads more power available without any internal mods, very reliable, off-the-shelf bellhousing/gearbox
options.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 08:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
If you have £2k to spend on an engine, go for a duratec! Now fitting one to mine, have a look on my website for details.
David
Surely to do the complete job will be a tad more unless you fabricate everything yourself, unless I am missing a trick here?
You'll need sump, bellhousing (£200 ish iirc), exhaust manifold, engine management of some sort, clutch parts, hydraulics to operate it, various
plumbing bits unless you want it to look like an accident in a silicone hose shop.............
I'd be very interested to see an accurate review of costs of a complete, rolling road set-up, genuine 200hp duratec installed on a
"Locost" style budget, in a 7........................
cos XE's aint going to be around for ever LOL
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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NS Dev
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 08:17 AM |
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ok, had a look on your website, not quite as bad as I thought it might be, looks like the clutch is easier than it could have been in particular!
Once its all done and dynoed, let us know the result, if it makes over 200hp for less than £2000 the I'll consider fitting one when my XE
expires!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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CaptainJosh
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 09:10 AM |
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I would go with the duratec, as its the new up and coming engine its going to be pretty future proof.
Also, you can use an mx5 gearbox without having to fork out for an expensive bellhousing.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 09:21 AM |
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Why dream of a V8 probably the most undesirable engine for a Sevenish car as a big in effiecient V8 will be no faster but rob the chassis of its
nimble handling.
Bike engines are truly fantastic but they are just not designed to drive car drive trains.
In the 1600 to 2 litre size bracket think Ford Vauxhall or Rover.
In a Locost chassis any of these engines will be a lot faster than anything you have ever driven and make the Rover v8 look old and clumsy.
Rover K16 is by far the lightest, Rover M16 & T16 are good very powerful but heavy Vauxhall engines have an awful lot going for them but in
terms of bang per buck and ease to install the Zetec has to be the simplest solution.
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locosttroubles
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 09:23 AM |
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LEGENDS ALL!!!!! brilliant advice and thank you all so much. wish i registered here before buying my first shoddy mig welder which didn't work.
ya live ya learn though! i think a duratec is gonna be the way to go judging by the general feedback, best all rounder yeh? now just the small job of
finishing my first welding/chassis/everything else job. seeya in YEARS probably! thanks again
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 09:43 AM |
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Duratec is definitely "a" way to go,
..but after doing what youre doing now and looking for information the XE definitely sits on top of the pile for best all rounder.
And if you're using a type 9 box then you've got as much effort to put a vauxhall in as you have the duratec.
Going back to your first post, you're going to pay a huge premium for the modern duratec engine. You'll spend more putting it together
than if you fitted an R1 I bet and it'll end up slower.
Craig
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eddie99
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 10:32 AM |
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With 2k, i would say go Duratec if CEC is what you want. If not, from what i've seen on other threads look into older r1's for a BEC.
Im not sure whether a duratec would squeeze into that budget but ask other people that have done it and see flak monkey's build website...
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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NS Dev
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 12:44 PM |
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As above, I'm sceptical on that budget....for example, you WILL need to make the sump yourself and you WILL need to be able to sort a megasquirt
installation out from scratch, and find a rolling road that will map it, or somebody with a GOOD map for a std engine.
Bolting the thing in is one thing, getting decent and reliable power quite another.
I would go XE at the moment, as bits are MUCH more readily available, and much cheaper, and in standard form the XE actually seems to make MORE power
than a std duratec (assuming both are fitted with throttle bodies but are otherwise standard)
I am interested in the duratec route though, probably before I dry sump my XE, as I already have a management system which will run a duratec and
access to suitable maps, plus ally welding facilities etc and a set of throttle bodies...........
only worth doing if it will make more power than the XE though and my standard one is just over 200hp at the mo.
Edit - ps my total build cost was circa £5k so engine installation was certainly well under 2K, approx £1500 I think, but again, bear in mind that the
ACTUAL ENGINE only cost me £200 of that!!!!
[Edited on 5/3/09 by NS Dev]
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 02:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cooke80
If you like the sound of the v8, have you considered a 5 cylinder engine such as a volvo or an audi unit (i think fiat did one to but it was fwd)
because a 5 cylinder engine does a good impression of a v8.
I have to disagree; inline 5 cylinder engines have even firing angles giving a silky smooth smooth sound, nothing like the rough sound of a cross
plane V8 with it's odd firing angles.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 05:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
.... in standard form the XE actually seems to make MORE power than a std duratec (assuming both are fitted with throttle bodies but are otherwise
standard)
Really? An otherwise std duratec with parallel throttle bodies makes 195 bhp. Whats an XE make?
Duratec on weber 45's is 170bhp...on tapered throttle bodies is 203bhp
David
[Edited on 5/3/09 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 5/3/09 at 11:16 PM |
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I drive a volvo v70 (with inline 5) and I have to say it does sound a little bit like my old v8 truck.
What I will say though is it sounds identical to to the triton V10 I had in my F250
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by cooke80
If you like the sound of the v8, have you considered a 5 cylinder engine such as a volvo or an audi unit (i think fiat did one to but it was fwd)
because a 5 cylinder engine does a good impression of a v8.
I have to disagree; inline 5 cylinder engines have even firing angles giving a silky smooth smooth sound, nothing like the rough sound of a cross
plane V8 with it's odd firing angles.
[Edited on 5/3/09 by liam.mccaffrey]
Build Blog
Build Photo Album
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NS Dev
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 08:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
.... in standard form the XE actually seems to make MORE power than a std duratec (assuming both are fitted with throttle bodies but are otherwise
standard)
Really? An otherwise std duratec with parallel throttle bodies makes 195 bhp. Whats an XE make?
Duratec on weber 45's is 170bhp...on tapered throttle bodies is 203bhp
David
[Edited on 5/3/09 by flak monkey]
Ok, good as identical then.
Std XE on taper bodies makes around 204hp (the "SBD kit" quote, but two of mine have been within couple of hp of that) and on weber
48's around 175hp.
Sounds like an identical sort of benchmark. Duratec is lighter though. Xe is cheaper though...
Xe getting harder to find a good one, duratec getting cheaper.
Certainly the future is Duratec, think to be fair we are now with the duratec where the XE was in 1994 (when they weren't cheap and I was first
playing with them! ) in that the price is coming down and the suppliers of bits are getting more common and so cheaper.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Andy D
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 11:52 AM |
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There's a thread on the Westy site HERE discussing
Durabang power.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 6/3/09 at 12:47 PM |
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It does depend a lot on the RR and set up.
I would also argue that with the air filters under the bonnet on the westy that you are going to loose a considerable amount of power (especially with
the short trumpets and squashed in air filter) Maybe a 10% restriction which would see you up at over 190bhp with a decent free flowing set up.
I find it hard to believe that a company such as Raceline or SBdev would overstate their power figures, it leaves you open to all sorts of
litigation....
The proof is in the pudding as they say. Will see what mine makes when its fitted and tweaked.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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