norfolkluego
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| posted on 7/5/09 at 11:28 PM |
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Fed up with my Crossflow
After spending what seems like a small fortune getiing my 1600 crossflow running sweetly it's played up on the two track days we've done
with it so far (we wanted it mainly to do a season of Sprinting and Hillclimbing.
Track day 1 - RAF Marham (airfield obviously), long and fast, great fun but after a couple of hours the engine was breathing very heavily, oil was
black and it wouldn't tick over unless we left it to cool down (temp gauge read normal all through).
Track Day 2 - Snetterton today, same problems but occured earlier (20 laps ish). I don't really want to throw good money after bad and
it's never going to be the most powerful engine but I must admit it's a joy to drive when running right. What's to do give up on it
or persevere and if so do what?
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skodaman
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 12:50 AM |
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I'd give up on it and get a Zetec. I'll take your crossflow if it's free to a good home and you deliver it to sunny Lancashire
lol.
Seriously a few people reckon they blow out a lot of oil on the track. Fit a bigger catch tank. The Zetec engine is better in any measureable way
but for locost use I prefer the primitiveness of the crossflow and i can't be bothered with megasquirt or bike carb conversions (yet anyway).
Suppose it really depends on how fast you want to go and how much you've got to spend. Also if it's for competition use check out what
the winners are using.
Skodaman
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disco_biscuit
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 05:35 AM |
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Could it be an oil temp problem? my tuned cross flow used to run a baffled sump and oil cooler, never had any problems.
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 06:07 AM |
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What have you done 
You're going to have loads of suggestions of bike engines now!
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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clairetoo
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 06:10 AM |
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Stick with it !
I loved my crossflow - light , fast , cheap to run and a lovely sound
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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nib1980
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 06:45 AM |
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i had that problem till i realised I needed to leave the PCV valve in and not replace it with afree breathing burton one. changed over and it's
sweet as anything now.
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Ivan
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 06:45 AM |
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If you 1600 Toyota 4AGE is the way to go. If you don't want Feul injection go with Webers.
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johnemms
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 06:50 AM |
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What does a Toyota rev to? I know it's a lot cause I've driven one ages ago.....
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procomp
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 07:03 AM |
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Hi
A good X/flow should runn all day when right. 1st as mentioned above you could really do with an oil cooler. Personally i do not use air to oil ones
any more but cold return water to oil versions. These will keep your oil temp to 10 degs above water temp.
2nd The only oil that work in a x/flow is VALVOLINE 20/50 racing. VR1 as it's now known. About £22.50 for 5ltr. If using thinner or synthetic
oils they just get pushed out through the breathers and generally never give the right pressures for an old engine such as the x/flow. Talking of
breathers how is your plumbed. The preferred way is to run the block breather into the cam cover using say 5/8 - 15mm bore pipe. Then vent from the
cam cover to a catch tank using a min of 3/4 - 19mm pipe. care should be taken on where the take of to the catch tank is as you do not want it above a
rocker where the oil will simply get pumped out.
The running and not running problem sounds like it just down to carb settings between hot and cold. generally unless your using a choke the carbs when
set to run right when warm and good on track will not run particularly well when cold and have to be nursed up to a warm temp. But it's all
dependant on how your jetted.
As said stick with it theres nowt wrong with a crossflow. ( except for the oil leaks )
Cheers Matt
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TimC
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 08:38 AM |
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I'd read a load of stuff about heavy breathing so was amazed that my catch tank has stayed virtually bone dry...
I have no idea what the builder has done to achieve this - he used to co-drive for Phil Priceso seems to know a bit
about old Ford motors.
It's not got an oil cooler either - or an unleaded head (pity!)
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britishtrident
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 09:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego
After spending what seems like a small fortune getiing my 1600 crossflow running sweetly it's played up on the two track days we've done
with it so far (we wanted it mainly to do a season of Sprinting and Hillclimbing.
Track day 1 - RAF Marham (airfield obviously), long and fast, great fun but after a couple of hours the engine was breathing very heavily, oil was
black and it wouldn't tick over unless we left it to cool down (temp gauge read normal all through).
Track Day 2 - Snetterton today, same problems but occured earlier (20 laps ish). I don't really want to throw good money after bad and
it's never going to be the most powerful engine but I must admit it's a joy to drive when running right. What's to do give up on it
or persevere and if so do what?
Have you got a by-pass connection plumbed into the coolant system ? If not put in a bypass connection drill a couple of small holes i the thermostat
and check the ignition is getting enough advance at medium & high rpm.
[Edited on 8/5/09 by britishtrident]
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thunderace
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 09:34 AM |
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a xflow for life not just xmass
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Memphis Twin
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 09:50 AM |
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Make sure you have a fuel pump blanking plate with the welded-on deflector plate, to stop oil being squirted straight up the block breather/separator
pipe....
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 12:11 PM |
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Thanks for all the info, couple of things we've definitely got wrong then.
We're running 10W40 semi synthetic so that's one thing, never occured to me to use 'old fashioned' oil with an old fashioned
engine.
PCV valve is out and it breathes direct into the catch tank.
The carbs (Dellorto 40s) were professionally stripped, rebuilt and rejetted (alledgedly correctly) last month, I've got all jet sizes written
down at home, I'll post them up later.
We did have overheating problems prior to the carb rebuild and I whipped the thermostat out altogether, still running that way and the temp guage
never goes above about 90. I'll post up a couple of pics of the engine bay when I get home, to see if anything else is obvious.
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 12:15 PM |
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And
It has Lumention fitted and everything ignition wise checked out OK when the carbs were rebuilt.
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 12:19 PM |
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And, and
Just a thought, we filled the Luego up with 97 RON for Snetterton, bit of a treat for the old girl, could that cause a problem.
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 06:13 PM |
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OK the carb man wrote on his (large) bill the following.
Chokes 30mm
Mains 135
Idles 58
Airs 200
Pumps 40
Emulsions 7772.11
Floats open 25, closed 15
Timing static 15 deg
rpm 3500 35 deg
(it has a Burton A2 cam fitted)
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 07:42 PM |
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Have to say Matt makes a lot of sense( apart from the oil leaks). Rebuilt my engine a couple of years ago and have not had the catch tank emptied
since even after a rolling road session
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jpindy3
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| posted on 9/5/09 at 08:03 AM |
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somone got there first id go to a 4age revs to 8000 std ,light and good power,
i would go for slightly less power but lighter car .ie quicker
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 9/5/09 at 02:21 PM |
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Thanks for all the help with this, first job will be to try the oil suggestion, problem is I can't find VALVOLINE 20/50 for sale here in
Norwich.
I can find
Wilco 20w-50 Classic Motor Oil
Comma Classic 20w-50 Motor Oil
Duckhams Q 20w-50 Classic Engine Motor Oil
Would any of those be a suitable alternative or is it best to order the Valvoline online and leave it a couple of days?
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procomp
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| posted on 9/5/09 at 02:43 PM |
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Hi
For 20/50 Valvoline try these guys. ALIED MOTORSPORT. Also members on here Rich D. They are a team of LOCOST
racers ( 1300 x/flows ) and i dont think he/they are that far from yourself. He should have some instock as he buys some from me and also sources some
from local supply. So may be able to help with somewhere to buy if he has none.
You could also try the other brand. For road only and light track use any 20/50 mineral oil should do. But if spending all day on track Valvoline is
the stuff to use. virtually every cross flow in competition uses it.
Cheers Matt
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 9/5/09 at 08:09 PM |
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Thanks Matt, thanks everyone. I'll give it the Valvoline enema first and see if that fixes it, if not oil cooler here we come, I'll let
you know how we get on. Thanks again for all the help.
John
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 9/5/09 at 08:37 PM |
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Millers make some higher performance 20W50 oils as well.
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 10/5/09 at 05:47 PM |
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One last question, correctly filled with 20/50, what oil pressure should I be looking for (it was running around 30 at high rpm but very low at
idle)?
[Edited on 10/5/09 by norfolkluego]
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procomp
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| posted on 11/5/09 at 07:03 AM |
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Hi
Typically a good x/flow with a 20/50 should be reading 50Lb at tick over COLD. When up to full temperature you should see 25-30Lb depending on just
how much of a thrashing it has had. These figures are using a high pressure pump . But not high pressure high capacity. For a STD pump those figures
can drop by 10Lb. But to be honest it will all depend on whether your gauge is reading correctly and where it is plumbed in. IE if it is plumbed in
as STD by the oil pump towards the front you will get a higher reading than if plumbed in at the rear due to pressure drop down the oil galleries.
Usually only nervous race drivers plum the line in at the rear so they know exactly what the lowest pressure is.
Cheers Matt
Edit to say that at high RPM IE anything above 5.5 it should have a good 50 ish and with a high pressure pump it should be blowing the release valve
of so that would depend on what the pressure was set at but 60 is is normal.
[Edited on 12/5/09 by procomp]
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