scoop
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 10:38 AM |
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Fed up with my Pinto.....
Its been running on three (not number one) and ive tried all i can think of.
Its a standard cam. The head has been match ported and skimmed and its running on Bogg Bros. R1 carbs. The ignition system is from a company called
Bestec.
We have spark. Have changed plugs and leads round to confirm this. So, to my my mind that rules out the dizzy etc as well.
When you check the plugs number one is always wet with unburnt fuel.
Compression test shows 8 bar on all cylinders.
Readjusted the valve clearences this morning. Both on number one were tight.
Started it up and no ruddy change.
Whats left?
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sickbag
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 10:44 AM |
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might be worth swapping the faulty plug with another as it may be breaking down.
What brand are you using? I found that my Capri used to hate Bosch plugs, and they'd break down very quickly, but no problems with NGKs.
[Edited on 8/5/09 by sickbag]
Finally back on the job!
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tegwin
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 10:47 AM |
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I had this exact same problem on a very slightly tuned pinto...
A new set of HT leads and plugs solved the problem....for now..... but it seems to be a re-ocuring problem....
I did wonder if the valve timing was not quite right... but I cant get it any more accurate without using a vernier pulley...
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Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
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scoop
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 10:53 AM |
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Will go and check the plugs now but think they are NGK. But, if ive swapped them round and nothing changes doesnt this mean they are okay?
The leads and plugs are all virtually new by the way.
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omega0684
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 10:59 AM |
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have you checked the spark gap in the plugs?
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scoop
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 11:00 AM |
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Plugs are NGK R's APR6FS
Just took number one out and filthy. Could it be oil getting in through a valve seal. Would that do it?
I know they did grind off the bottom of the valve seal when they ported it.
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sickbag
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 11:01 AM |
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I suppose the only way to be sure is is you check every step the spark has to take to get from the rotor arm to the plug.
Is there any signs of tracking both inside and outside of the dizzy cap? Especially around the post for number one?
If you've already swapped the leads and plugs, and it's still number one missing then they shouldn't be the issue. Is it still
number one that's missing when you've swapped the leads and plugs?
Finally back on the job!
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 11:01 AM |
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sooty black or wet black?
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 11:06 AM |
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You've eliminated the plugs and leads by swapping them around, but it could still be the dizzy - might not be triggering for one cylinder or be
tracking the spark away from the lead on one cylinder. Maybe try turning it 90 degrees, move all the plugs and leads one cylinder along in the
sequence to compensate and see if the fault moves.
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Myke 2463
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 11:12 AM |
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I agree with Steve, If you have spark and compression then there must be a fuel prob, have you checked the carbs are still balanced.
Mike 
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scoop
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 11:13 AM |
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sooty black or wet black?
Wet black. Oil im sure. Just looked in the Haynes manual and it says "worn bores/piston rings or valve guides; sometimes occures during running
in period. Plugs can be used after thorough cleaning"
It is only run in i guess with a total of about 30 minutes since rebuild.
How would i identify tracking Sickbag?
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JAG
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 11:17 AM |
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The easiest way to spot tracking is to run the engine during the hours of darkness with ALL nearby lights turned off. You want it as dark as
possible.
If there's any tracking going on you'll see it - like very fine 'lightning' running around the distributor cap/HT
leads/ignition system etc...
Justin
Who is this super hero? Sarge? ...No.
Rosemary, the telephone operator? ...No.
Penry, the mild-mannered janitor? ...Could be!
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scoop
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 11:18 AM |
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Have checked the spark gap and spot on at 0.75mm.
The carbs are as they came from Bogg Bros and i know nothing about setting them up.
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scoop
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 11:20 AM |
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Can you get all these faults on new equipment? Well, had it a while but only just strating to use it.
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adithorp
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 11:34 AM |
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Is the miss always there? If you pull the lead off and put another plug in the end, earthed to the block does it spark?
If its oil. Does it smoke? Does it run ok with a new/clean plug in for a while then deteriorate?
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Dusty
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 11:37 AM |
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You have done that much swapping of ignition stuff. Moving the dizzy 90 degrees and all the leads round one hole rules out the dizzy/arm/cap unless
the non firing cylinder moved as well. Just leaves No 1 spark plug lead which you can easily replace to eliminate.
I would have to vote for a problem with the first carb. 2,3,4 working fine. Oil into No1 cylinder would have to be heavy to disrupt firing and oil the
plug. I think the first carb is tuned way over rich giving a black wet plug. Strip the carb, float level, punctured float, odd large jet in it, etc.
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scoop
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 11:43 AM |
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Hmm. Just rang a mate in a garage (who works on cars but loves bikes) and he thought the jet on number is most likely blocked.
Im gonna go and give that a look. Dont know what im looking at but will go anyway
You have all been great thanks guys.
Let you know when in a bit.
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 12:22 PM |
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No you have not ruled out the cap and rotor. It could be a bent/badly machined contact post to number one cylinder/hair line crack/earth fault/contact
& rotor fault.
The only way to check is to replace with new.
Before you fire up after replacing, I would also get and fit a new set off plugs, leaving the old ones out for quite some time bfore fitting the new
ones, so that you give the flooded cylinder a chance to dry out before fitting the new plugs (so that you dont soak the new plug before firing up).
Also I assume that you have an electronic distributor not a points and condensor type, if points type it could be that the cam lobe for number 1 is
worn.
If electronic then it could be a fault with the pickup/register for number 1 cylinder.
Hope this helps and you get it sorted.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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Dingz
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 12:33 PM |
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What fuel pump are you using? if the original pinto one have you got a pressure regulator set at its lowest setting?
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scoop
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 12:55 PM |
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Electronic dizzy
R1 fuel pump from Bogg Bros.
Done the carb. Couldnt see any muck and diafram is fine.
Think im imagining its running better and quieter but its still not getting hot on number one and no difference when i pull the lead off
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davidcarr
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 03:03 PM |
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Does it run cylinder 1 at higher revs. I've just had a similar problem with my webers where the idle mixture screw was broken off blocking fuel
getting in at idle. You could tell by taking the idle mixure screw out and looking down the hole. Should be able to see though into barrel. I have
no experience of bike carbs though!
Other thought is that you can swap the carbs over if you're running two twins. That would rule out the carb instantly if the problem
didn't go away. Might take a few minutes to do though and I'm not sure how easy it is with bike carbs.
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andyharding
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 03:25 PM |
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Try replacing the valve stem seals on number one. You can do this without taking the head off. Worked for me with the same problem...
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jacko
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 03:35 PM |
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Carbs need balancing or crack in dizzy cap
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Andy D
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| posted on 8/5/09 at 04:05 PM |
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I know from experience, on a standard electronic dizzy, if you turn the engine over with the distributer cap off, its possible for a cap retaining
clip to flop into the workings, and jam against the trigger wheel.
The trigger wheel spins on the shaft, the end result being, when the ignition fires, the rotor arm isnt adjacent to a contact in the dizzy cap. It
could be the spark is having to jump a large gap, with the gap to No1 pluglead contact being just a frac too far...
Should be easy enough to check. Rotate the crank to line up the static timing marks, 10deg? and see if the rotor arm is pointing at a contact in
the dizzy cap. (Either No1 or No4)
If it's not rotate the trigger wheel to the correct position, and reset the ignition timing.
Hope that all makes sense. 
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scoop
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| posted on 9/5/09 at 09:41 AM |
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Update.
Mate popped round last night who knows a bit and discovered, using a bit of hose that there is no vacume on number one carb?
Tried to reset the timing to tdc but the belt wont go on when its dead on so we have had to compromise one way and the other but no change
No crack in dizzy cap and all contacts good.
Jacko, how do you set up the carbs? I can only see that you might change the jets.
Cheers,
Steve.
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