mangogrooveworkshop
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 posted on 1/8/09 at 07:54 AM |
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Think you have problems with neighbours
Well this guy tops em all
BBC NEWS
'Why should I live by Gypsies?'
By Helen Grady
Producer, Beyond Westminster
Every year millions of pounds are spent by local councils on evicting Gypsies and travellers from illegal camp sites. The government thinks the answer
is to create more authorised sites, but who should decide where they go?
Len Gridley has some problems with his neighbours. The first is that there are 1,000 of them. The second is that they have set up what has become
Europe's biggest illegal traveller site next to his back garden.
"All I want is for the council to clear the site," said Mr Gridley as he showed the 8ft fence he has fitted to separate his garden from
his neighbours' homes.
"Who wants to live next to a Gypsy and traveller site? My house used to be worth £500,000 and now it's worth £150,000. No one wants to
live here. People have sold up at a loss just to get away."
The site is in Cray's Hill, a picturesque village in the Essex countryside, which has become the focus of a planning row that is likely to cost
the local council £3m.
Illegal settlement
The site backing onto Mr Gridley's bungalow is known as Dale Farm. It is owned by Gypsies and Irish Travellers, some of whom have been living
there since the 1970s.
Grattan Puxon, a spokesman for the Dale Farm Residents, said the site expanded after some families bought an old scrap yard adjoining the original
site. "As the families got bigger, they believed it was a quite a reasonable idea to clean up the old scrap yard and move onto it," he
explained.
“ This is somewhere for us to live, plus somewhere for us to get our kids looked after in the lines of doctors and dentists and education ”
Jean Sheridan, traveller
But only half of the Dale Farm site has planning permission and more than 400 people are facing eviction following a ruling by the Law Lords in
May.
Basildon District Council, has spent almost £1m on the legal battle to evict the Travellers and set aside another £2m to pay for bailiffs to clear the
illegal section of the site.
Council leader Tony Ball said it was worth the cost, adding "It's quite clear - they are living on green belt land without planning
permission. UK law says that site has to be restored to green belt. What price upholding the law? The alternative is anarchy."
But families at Dale Farm claim they have nowhere else to go. And, although they are travellers by birth, they say they need a base.
"I don't know how to read or write," said Jean Sheridan, a mother-of-four. "I've been brung up like a proper traveller -
travelling from site to site and on the roads constantly, so I never got the chance to go to school and get an education.
"This is somewhere for us to live, plus somewhere for us to get our kids looked after in the lines of doctors and dentists and education and
things like that."
"I'd be happy to move if they could find us another site," added a neighbour, who asked not to be named. "But nobody wants us,
so where are they going to put us?"
Political dilemma
That is a dilemma politicians have been grappling with for decades. So far, a solution seems elusive. Although most Gypsies and travellers live in
authorised sites, it still costs councils in England at least £18m a year to evict people from illegal sites.
# is broadcast on BBC Radio 4 on Saturday 1 August 2009 at 1100 BST Catch up later on the BBC
The government thinks the best way to cut these costs is to create more authorised sites and is offering councils £32m each year in grants for these
sites.
There is some evidence to suggest this approach could work. Kent has 17 council-run sites across the county and has slashed its eviction costs by
80%.
But other local authorities have proved reluctant even to identify Gypsy and traveller sites, never mind creating council-run ones.
In England, each region must agree how many sites each local council will set aside for Gypsies and travellers in a document called the Regional
Spatial Strategy.
However, some councils are threatening to take legal action rather than agreeing, even in principle, to provide what they see as "more than
their fair share."
Candy Sheridan, a Liberal Democrat councillor in North Norfolk and a member of an Irish Traveller family, said a big part of the problem is that even
authorised sites are unpopular with the settled community.
"There is no ideal site," said Ms Sheridan. "I sit on a planning committee and whenever the word Gypsy or traveller comes in, you
get hundreds of people coming to public meetings and everybody is goaded up to say no to planning permission.
"Councillors who have signed up to creating new sites have lost their seats. What you have to do is take the responsibility away from local
politicians."
At the moment, even though councils must assess the housing needs of Gypsies and travellers and have a strategy for meeting those needs, there is no
legal duty to provide sites.
Labour MP Clive Betts, a member of the Communities and Local Government Select Committee, thinks that should change.
He told the BBC: "I think a lot of local authorities would welcome a statutory duty to have to do something because at least then they can go to
their residents and say, 'we have to do something, let's find the best sites'."
Extra sites
But shadow local government spokesman Bob Neil said such decisions should be made at a local level and that the Conservatives would scrap the Regional
Spatial Strategy.
Meanwhile Basildon District Council is advertising for bailiffs to evict the illegal Dale Farm residents and councillors are resisting calls to
provide an extra 60 Gypsy and traveller pitches as part of the Regional Spatial Strategy.
Said Coun Ball: "If every authority in the country took an additional seven pitches that would deal with the demand that's out there at
the moment.
"We would take seven extra pitches. But it is inequitable that, while Basildon already provides a 100, some are not providing any."
is broadcast on BBC Radio 4 on Saturday 1 August at 1100 BST. Or listen again via the BBC
Or download the programme
Should Gypsies and travellers be housed on official sites funded by the taxpayer? Who should decide where they go - councils or Central Government?
Are you a traveller? Do you live near an authorised site for travellers or an illegal camp? Send us your comments by filling in the form below.
A selection of your comments may be published, displaying your name and location unless you state otherwise in the box below.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk_politics/8171273.stm
Published: 2009/08/01 01:26:51 GMT
© BBC MMIX
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eznfrank
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 09:54 AM |
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I used to live a stones throw from the traveller camp at Cottingley Springs in Leeds and had no end of bother with them. There was also an occasion
when they moved into a carpark at the back of my house.
I'd have no real problems living next to a caravan park or travellers, if they weren't.... burning tyres, fighting, harrasing and
intimidating locals, leaving the place looking like a sh1thole, riding their quadbikes illegally down my road in the middle of the night etc etc.
What gets me is that in Leeds they have been given a place they can live but they've destroyed it, it's an absolute dump, they've
stolen the roof tiles off the buildings (I think they're washrooms) the council provided for them, there's gas canisters and crap
everywhere and there was a stage not so long back where there would be a new burnt out car outside there pretty much every saturday, sunday and monday
morning!
[Edited on 1/8/09 by eznfrank]
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 10:01 AM |
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I agree that they should all have access to doctors! They should all be sterilised or put down at birth.
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 10:28 AM |
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They have moved into the carpark next to work for the umpteth time and they leave the place like a s*******tip.
Two years ago they were shooting at each other.......last year they had a war in the local grave yard at a funeral There was riot police
called in and several pikeys got arrested for carrying weapons.....
[Edited on 1-8-09 by mangogrooveworkshop]
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blakep82
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 10:47 AM |
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they're all still at the bottom of my road, lighting fires. came home after work last night and saw smoke. it was only a bon fire next to a
caravan.
and then i saw 2 huge ugly things standing by the side of the road
wonder why they don't get their vans taken off them. surely they can't all be taxed, insured, mot'd etc. they must show up on anpr
________________________
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PaulBuz
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 11:23 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
wonder why they don't get their vans taken off them. surely they can't all be taxed, insured, mot'd etc. they must show up on anpr
The simple answer is that the police are scared of them.
Gypsies rely on intimidation, big blokes with big dogs of almost equal IQ.
I would send in the army... they're not bullet proof.
ATB
Paul
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blakep82
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 11:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulBuz
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
wonder why they don't get their vans taken off them. surely they can't all be taxed, insured, mot'd etc. they must show up on anpr
The simple answer is that the police are scared of them.
Gypsies rely on intimidation, big blokes with big dogs of almost equal IQ.
I would send in the army... they're not bullet proof.
lol i know, but surely they could get one van while its out and about on its own?
________________________
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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StevieB
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 11:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulBuz
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
wonder why they don't get their vans taken off them. surely they can't all be taxed, insured, mot'd etc. they must show up on anpr
The simple answer is that the police are scared of them.
Gypsies rely on intimidation, big blokes with big dogs of almost equal IQ.
I would send in the army... they're not bullet proof.
Better still, recruit them into the army - 1st battalion landmine and IED detection regiment. Their badge could be a hand catching a bullet....
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iank
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 12:53 PM |
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What do you think they'd do if their vans were confiscated? If you said "steal another one" then you probably understand half the
reason the police don't make a big issue of it. Other half is it's hard for move them on if they're on foot so they stay being a
problem on your crime figures rather than for the next towns BIB.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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blakep82
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 01:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
What do you think they'd do if their vans were confiscated? If you said "steal another one" then you probably understand half the
reason the police don't make a big issue of it. Other half is it's hard for move them on if they're on foot so they stay being a
problem on your crime figures rather than for the next towns BIB.
that makes sense. they don't seem to be doing a lot to get them moved on though 
________________________
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 02:09 PM |
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quote:
What do you think they'd do if their vans were confiscated? If you said "steal another one" then you probably understand half the
reason the police don't make a big issue of it. Other half is it's hard for move them on if they're on foot so they stay being a
problem on your crime figures rather than for the next towns BIB.
Oh well that makes it all Ok then??????? Lets all become Pikey scum and do what we want with no fear of the law. This country sucks BIG
TIME
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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iank
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 04:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
quote:
What do you think they'd do if their vans were confiscated? If you said "steal another one" then you probably understand half the
reason the police don't make a big issue of it. Other half is it's hard for move them on if they're on foot so they stay being a
problem on your crime figures rather than for the next towns BIB.
Oh well that makes it all Ok then??????? Lets all become Pikey scum and do what we want with no fear of the law. This country sucks BIG
TIME
I wasn't suggesting it was OK, but it is rational.
I don't hold with the 'scared' of them theory, plod don't seem to have trouble knocking down the doors of armed drug dealers
who are as least as unpleasant.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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Peteff
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 05:43 PM |
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A few years back the police here went onto a camp and seized 3 caravans and a couple of Navaras plus some Husky dogs which were identified as stolen
as well so some of the pikeys were walking and nothing to live in. It doesn't happen often enough though and it cost £30,000 of local council
tax to clean up after they'd gone.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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owelly
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 09:12 PM |
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And it's about this time of year Whitby has the Pikey Carnies in town. It's the start of the show season and generally the Show Gippos are
OK. It's the dozens of 'we'll tarmac your drive, fit double glazing, dig your garden, steal your shed' hangers-on that fight,
steal and get into trouble. As soon as they are here, the local BiB set up a mobile police station next to the field set aside by the council (at our
cost) to keep an eye on them. The council have already rebuilt the shower blocks and toilets after they destroyed them last year. And they've
got six big skips for them to not bother with as they can just throw rubbish wherever they want...............
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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zilspeed
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 09:28 PM |
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If they moved into our street, the council would probably think they'd got into my shed 'o' doom and trashed the joint the way it
looks right now...
The concept I struggle with is that they are 'travellers' yet the site in essex has been there since the 60s and some of the gaffs have
less wheels than a surfboard.
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 09:39 PM |
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Did you know that Gypsies are now oficially recognised as an ethnic minority? I had to do a study and presentation on gypsies, travellers and
showpeople in Salford earlier this year. Went round to their homes and had a chat. Got on real well with the showpeople, they'd just bought an
8ft folding machine. 
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morcus
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| posted on 2/8/09 at 12:05 AM |
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Gypsy's have always been recognised as an ethnic minority as they are one in the truest sense, travellers in general are not.
Gang warfare is the only effective way to see off the maruading kind, you need to find your self some fixed place pikeys or some gangsters or
something.
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 2/8/09 at 10:00 AM |
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Irish travellers gained ethnic minority status August 2000. What I found interesting too is that a lot, around Salford anyhow, live in what they call
"bricks and mortar" houses. That is regular housing and still class themselves as gypsies or travellers and fall under the minority
umbrella.
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eznfrank
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| posted on 2/8/09 at 10:14 PM |
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The "show" gypsies I wouldn't count as typical gypsies, they travel because it's an essential part of the job. I went to
school and was friends with 2 brothers whose parents had a mobile video arcade and a few kiddy rides. One of the nicest families you could wish to
meet. Not of Irish origin and absolutely despised the pikeys and the way "they" had made travellers in general second class citizens.
That being said, I wouldn't want to cross either of the brothers or their dad, they'd learnt to look after themselves pretty well over the
years!!
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 3/8/09 at 12:26 AM |
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You're right, though the 'show gypsies' hate to be called gypsies and despise them mainly because of the trouble they cause and the
fact that they get labelled as part of the causers. In Salford they've actually put a gate on their land to stop the police storming in and
mistaking them for the travellers next door. Like you say they travel as part of their work and are actually called 'showpeople'. They
have their own showpersons guild and have a regular newspaper you can get. Very friendly people actually and some have taken to making fast food
trailers as a money booster which means they have some handy tools.
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Vindi_andy
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| posted on 3/8/09 at 10:12 AM |
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A few years ago a friend of mine was a barman at a trditional romany wedding and although they knew how to look after themselve there was no trouble
at the bar he worked at. Nana and grandad of the bride turned up in a traditional caravan. They werent shy about spending their money and looking
after my mate in terms of tips
The only problem was when a load of yobs turned up after the bash and started trash talking and getting lary. They were soon taught the error of
their ways in the carpark but noone else had any trouble.
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eznfrank
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| posted on 3/8/09 at 12:28 PM |
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I think they must spend a hell of a lot of their tax free cash on weddings. My missus did floristry at college and they spent about 3-4 full days
just on gypsy weddings!!
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wilkingj
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| posted on 3/8/09 at 12:34 PM |
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Well IF they are Travellers, why do then need to have a base camp / stay in one place.
By the very nature of their lifestyle they should be moving on regularly.
If they stay and live in one place, then they arent travellers, and therefore should live in proper houses / properites.
Also they are bound by the same laws as us. If I put up another house in my garden the council would soon make me take it down. The rules and laws
should apply to everyone equally.
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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