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Author: Subject: One for volvorsport or other volvo experts!!
NS Dev

posted on 19/8/09 at 07:55 AM Reply With Quote
One for volvorsport or other volvo experts!!

Right, I'm looking for some cheap turbo power for a project car, and I keep arriving at the Volvo department!

Firstly, based on the fact that I need somewhere in the region of 350hp, am I restricted to the 16v engines or are the old 8v 2.3's reliable at that sort of level? I realise that on any option I will be fitting a big turbo, but that is not an issue, have a good source there!

Next, I'm a know nowt on the volvo range!!

I believe the M90 gearbox is the one to go for (space is not an issue in this project), what volvos are fitted with these......I assume 700 and 900 series manual cars, is this right?

Next, presumably the whiteblock engines are a better bet for more power........ what year did volvo start using these, and was the 5 cylinder used in RWD form or only in FWD in the 850 onwards?

The 5 cyl appeals due to nice noise and more power potential. What worries me is the sump and inlet/exhaust manifolds, as the fwd items won't be of any use in my rwd application.

The old 8v appeals in that it already has pretty good manifolding both on the exhaust and inlet sides, which saves a lot of fabricating (I assume I'd be making inlet and exhaust manifolds if turbocharging a 4 cyl whiteblock), but it doesn't make as nice a noise and it presumably is limited in power potential compared to the 5 cyl, or at least the 4 cyl will be much more laggy and less driveable??

Basically I guess the last question is, on a low budget (though still one that will use DTA engine management and pay for a full mapping on rolling road, of course! ) RWD 5 cyl whiteblock turbo or RWD 2.3 8 valve turbo?????????????????

Volvorsport, what do you think?

[Edited on 19/8/09 by NS Dev]





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Alex.

posted on 19/8/09 at 08:20 AM Reply With Quote
If you want 350bhp, then don't use a 4 cylinder whiteblock (T4 lump). The best that these have achieved is about 400bhp but with a lot of time and money thrown at them.

The 5 cylinder whiteblock (T5 lump) are better for higher power. Any of the FWD whiteblocks do bolt straight onto the M90 gearbox, but they were only on the manual 960 Volvos and are quite hard to get hold of. A company in Sweden does an adapter plate to bolt a whiteblock onto a gearbox from a 6 cylinder BMW.

The T5 also starts at 225bhp standard rather than the 200bhp of the T4.

Pop over to the Volvo forums, lots of advice on tuning these engines.

T5D5

VPCUK

Volvo Owners Club

Alex.

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twybrow

posted on 19/8/09 at 08:52 AM Reply With Quote
Why not look at the Volvo 2.9 (3.0) straight 6? 205bhp straight out of the car, and will bolt straight to (or come attached to) the M90 gearbox. I hear they turbo particularly well, due to the low compression ratio.... Plus they sound great!
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alistairolsen

posted on 19/8/09 at 09:18 AM Reply With Quote
ok, The old 8v redblocks have much stronger bottom ends.

M90 came on 6 cylinder white block 960s only I believe.

Whiteblock T5 was certainly available by N plate (95) in the 850, possibly before. I would'nt go with assuming they are necessarily better however, they have a major weak point with the rods, although I believe the later engines are better. Apart from the 6 cylinder n/a everything else was fwd only.

Im aiming for 400bhp on a 5 cyl whiteblock, but Im keeping the torque low and making power high up the rev range (I hope) so 300ftlbs at 7k ish. If you want to run big midrange then the rods in the T5 wont take it and youd be better starting with the 8v if you dont want to do a full build.





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liam.mccaffrey

posted on 19/8/09 at 09:19 AM Reply With Quote
I think the old 2.3 redblock is lighter than a pinto and requires no internals mods to get 350 HP or so I'm told by volvorsport.

I'm using a 5cyl whiteblock turbo and desperately looking a for T5 box at the right price





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Volvorsport

posted on 19/8/09 at 09:21 AM Reply With Quote
ill give an updated reply when i get in to night.

8v/16v redblock , easy peasy on std internals with decent headgasket and head work for 8v , 16v no probs .

whiteblock , not so easy peasy , will require rods for that power .

BUT - we have made adapters to type 9 gearboxes, and dry sumps for 5 cyl .





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pewe

posted on 19/8/09 at 09:21 AM Reply With Quote
What about a SAAB 2.3 Eco turbo?
They reckon the bottom end is good for 300+ and you can use a GM gearbox.
PPC are currently running an on-going conversion to put into a Mk 2 Escort so they have covered a lot of the bases already.
HTH. Cheers, Pewe

V V Understand what you say about PPC. They make it sound sooo easy. Similar probs turning my Lancia Volumex engine upright and N/S from E/W but Fiat used similar engines for rear wheel drivers so most parts were available and brother-in-law's engineering company did the rest.
BOL with the Volvo switch.

[Edited on 20/8/09 by pewe]

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Alex.

posted on 19/8/09 at 12:37 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
BUT - we have made adapters to type 9 gearboxes, and dry sumps for 5 cyl .


Sorry for the thread drift, but this part is really interesting for me!

Does this mean that you have successfully mated a Volvo Whiteblock T5 engine to a Ford type 9 gearbox?

Does it need much work apart from the adapter plate? Can the standard gearbox take the power?
I have not given up hope on using a turbo Volvo unit at some time, but after I've gone through IVA and have a bit more time and cash.

Alex.

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NS Dev

posted on 19/8/09 at 02:50 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
ill give an updated reply when i get in to night.

8v/16v redblock , easy peasy on std internals with decent headgasket and head work for 8v , 16v no probs .

whiteblock , not so easy peasy , will require rods for that power .

BUT - we have made adapters to type 9 gearboxes, and dry sumps for 5 cyl .


cheers, thinking 8 valve for simplicity, so let me know when you get the chance. If its easier then I'll pm you my mobile number, give me a call and I'll call you back so it's not costing you!

cheers

Nat





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NS Dev

posted on 19/8/09 at 02:54 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pewe
What about a SAAB 2.3 Eco turbo?
They reckon the bottom end is good for 300+ and you can use a GM gearbox.
PPC are currently running an on-going conversion to put into a Mk 2 Escort so they have covered a lot of the bases already.
HTH. Cheers, Pewe


hi, yep, on paper it looks great, and I have a low mileage '98 saab turbo sat in front of me as I write this.

Sadly in reality not so easy!!!

Sump, oil pressure reg valve block, inlet manifold, exhaust manifold all need to be fabricated basically from scratch, no saab items are any use. All the front end ancilliary drive is completely wrong, you have to make up new idlers, totally different belt run (and in fact for mid engine applications I'm now going for electric water pump which greatly simplifies it all.

PPC get stuff done for next to nowt, due to their advertising power!

Now I can do it all myself, but trying to make money from my business at the same time really doesn't allow it.

have decided that the volvo beng rwd as std helps a lot!





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Volvorsport

posted on 19/8/09 at 06:58 PM Reply With Quote
Right ,

the redblock engine , from 1974 was B19/21/23 . had forged rods and pistons in the B23ET (lots of people use these as a basis for high power) .

in 85/86 , detail changes to B230 including longer rods and shorter compression height pistons , with 9mm thick rods until 89/90 , so its bit of a chocolate motor in comparison , from 90 onwards they got 13mm rods . all pistons in this case were cast reinforced , but the later type of B230FT are pretty good and will do 350 hp .

in comparison all 16v motors got 13mm rods and bumps for oil squirters , which didnt arrive on 8v engine until 1993 .

penta (boat motors) all have 9mm rods , but come with cranks to go to 2.5 litres which is a straight swap - but does need different pistons .

the 8v with enough boost /cam/intercooling will easily do 350 hp , the 16v will get there but youll need to fab an exhaust manifold to suit , but there are spacers available which convert to a later type manifold , in fact theyre easy to make .

youll make life easier for aftermarket ecus running a 4 cyl , the flywheel is setup 60-2 altho dual mass , but its easy to convert back to single or buy one from TTV racing (ive set this up) .

its probably easier to talk on the phone about the whiteblock , so ill PM ya , bit by bit tho parts are being made to run them RWD .





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