Surrey Dave
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 06:29 PM |
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The Passion.............
Has anyone seen 'The Passion of Christ' and do they dare say what they thought..................I keep getting into rows when I
do!!!
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 06:32 PM |
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sounds like a self indulgent horror film based on the story of Christ.
I cant understand why anyone would want to watch blatent violence like that.
I avoid horror films - life can be crap enough without paying to watch 2 hrs of torture in your leisure time.
atb
steve
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Noodle
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 07:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
I cant understand why anyone would want to watch blatent violence like that.
I avoid horror films - life can be crap enough without paying to watch 2 hrs of torture in your leisure time.
Hear hear. 
Your sort make me sick
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MustangSix
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 09:29 PM |
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On this side of the pond I find it interesting that so many decry the "violence" in this film, but remain curously silent on things far,
far more objectionable and damaging to the psyche and soul.
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thekafer
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 10:36 PM |
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Amen,
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy...
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 11:09 PM |
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if Janet Jacksons Tit caused all that forore, imagine a 2 hrs crucifiction!
America sometimes has its priorities all wrong.
Still doesnt justify what seems to be a religious slasher movie.
Still - lots of potential follow up movies - a few of the disciples met sticky ends too I think.......
atb
steve
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Simon
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 11:36 PM |
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Knowing Hollywood's Passion for followups, we'll probably get the Resurrection next!
ATB
Simon
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thekafer
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 11:46 PM |
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The only reason we were so upset with the whole super bowl "wardrobe malfuntion" was .........we thought it was Micheal Jackson.
Fletch
(God, Why could'nt have been Beyonce'
[Edited on 31/3/04 by thekafer]
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy...
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sgraber
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 05:27 AM |
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I sae the film and was moved by it. To me the violence portrayed in this movie is quite different than the violence seen in most all Hollywood
productions. The senseless, gratuitous, violence of Hollywood has no deep meaning, no purpose, other than to satiate the typically American
compensation for our puritanical view of sexuality. In the Passion, I believe that the violence is not gratuitous. Why? The point of Christianity is
that the entire reason for Christ being on this earth was to die on the cross and in doing so 'absolve' us all of our sins. In that
context, the type of violence portrayed in the film was actually pretty mild.
I was brought up as a Christian (Mennonite actually) but I have no faith now, except in myself. 
Graber
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Jayce Lane
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 06:42 AM |
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I have not seen the film itself, but would like to offer the following comments. The voilence only serves to indicate that sin can not be left
unpunished and when one person has to take on all the sin of the world, you get what you see in the passion. But from what I know from studying the
bible is that you never quite get to grips with the magnitude of things and therefore the violence as portrayed is most probably understated, and
unfathomanable.
The other point , as I am lead to believe, is that after watching the movie, you have to make a decision about Christ. Do you acknowledge what he did
for us, the suffering he was subjected to and the freedom from death he has given to us.
Or, do you think that it is a gruesome story about mob voilence as found in the rest of the world, with no implication or bearing on your life.
And Garber, I am sorry to hear that you only have faith in yourself now. I cant find faith in myself becuase despite my best intentions I am as
inconsistent as the weather. Faith is about having hope when there is no hope, believing in something that is yet to come, but has not. Faith is
believing that one man Jesus Christ has died on the cross for our sins, and through him and believing in him we are made right with God, and therefore
are not subject to judgement.
So, I believe that the Jury (the rest of mankind) is still out on Jesus. I am just glad that I know on which side of the judge I sit.
Hopefully, but doubtedly this may have highlighted some things. This topic may just become more heated than the concern over front suspension under
the forum chassis.
Cheers
Jayce
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stutz
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 08:08 AM |
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I never new it was he who invented the modern dining table!!!!
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Noodle
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 08:29 AM |
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<tries not to stoke flames but probably will >
Hi,
Simon Balckburn in his book 'Think' gave an example along the lines of the following (it's paraphrasing as I remember it )
"God gave us reason. Using the evidence available, we would reason that there is no God. These people will receive their reward in Heaven. Those
who believe have not used their reasoning faculties that they were endowed with and will therefore not go to heaven."
As an agnostic, I find it most amusing. My wife, as a Christian, also finds it amusing. We will often discuss religious issues and agree/disagree in a
good natured way. I find my best conversations about the believability point of religion are with the local vicar and his part-time preacher.
He's a really nice bloke who will happily discuss these things for hours and never dismiss things out of hand without giving it some serious
thought. It's just the members of his flock who are a little scary sometimes with their outright and categorical dismissal and assertions based
on nothing. They don't want to think about it.
This coupled with the hilarious, yet utterly emphatic assertion from a friends father when we were kids that the original 997 long-stroke Mini Cooper
revved higher than the over-square 970S because it had a long stroke, yes, because it had a long stroke leads me to the following, that is by
no means exclusive to religious discussion:
Some people have closed minds, no amount of reason, evidence or experience will help.
Cheers,
Neil.
</tries not to stoke flames but probably will >
Your sort make me sick
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JoelP
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 08:55 AM |
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whether you believe in God or not, its hard to deny that the world would be a very peaceful place if everyone followed the teaching of
Christianity.
the stumbling block for me is that seemingly good people can end up in hell, just by not admitting minor sins and being forgiven. that doesnt seem
right to me. My gf's grandpa died the other week, he was a wonderful man but apparently, he's in hell now? i think not.
the other thing that annoys me has already been mentioned, the close mindedness and blind faith of some people. and the damned rituals...
oh yeah, and people who claim to be either catholic or protestant when they are neither, and still think they deserve a listing in the book of life
for it.
i personally believe in free religion, a personal relationship with God and no man telling me what to think or say. I'll live with my consience
and you live with yours.
just my 2ps worth.
oh yeah, back to the film. Well, it serves as a reminder at least, and gets things talked about that often wouldn't be. Still, as pointed out at
first, theres no need to indulge in violence, and i dont like dramatising things. YOU WEREN'T THERE MEL.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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TheGecko
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 09:05 AM |
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WEll, I haven't seen the movie either but, as a practicing atheist, I treat it much as I would any other modern spin on an old fairytale.
quote:
Do you acknowledge what he did for us, the suffering he was subjected to and the freedom from death he has given to us.
And there's the central problem with most organised religions as well as the reason for their existence - the believe in an afterlife.
e.g. I don't have to fear death - God is sat with Jesus at his right hand to welcome me into heaven.
or maybe; I don't fear dying when I detonate the 10kg of SEMTEX strapped to my body because Allah is waiting with 72 virgins for me.
or... pick your favourite platitude for the ignorant masses from any other religion - Hindu, Shinto, Judaism, etc etc etc
A thinking man might say "Hmmm, there's all these different religions and each one says they're the one true path and all others are
false - the sensible conclusion is that they're all rubbish." I despair at the inability of modern people to apply critical thinking.
They can happily say that (for instance) poly-theistic African tribal religions are obviously derived from witch-doctors explanations of how the world
works and why someone is sick or dying. But the same person seems unable to apply the same logic to Christianity or Islam or any other modern
religion, even though they have the same form i.e they invoke one or more invisible, omnipotent beings (gods) to explain the things in the world that
we don't understand and that scare us. Wrap that up in some moralising and folk wisdom and you've got a religion. Now, in a modern world
that is explaining away the need for god/s in almost every aspect of our existence, organised religions feel more threatened than ever. God is
extremely conspicuous by his absence. Membership of most religions is slowly falling in the Western world (excluding, of course, the inexplicably,
increasingly fundamentalist US of A).
quote:
Faith is believing that one man Jesus Christ has died on the cross for our sins, and through him and believing in him we are made right with
God, and therefore are not subject to judgement.
This is just so f*cked up I want to vomit! You aren't subject to judgement because god had his only son killed!?! I believe that I'm
subject to judgement by the society I live in and by my own sense of ethics and morals. If you're saying that you don't need to worry
about judgement because your buddy god has taken care of it already.... well, stay the hell away from me!
I'll drop in a favourite quote on the topic just to really wee people off:
quote:
"Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny's my friend. Why can't God take someone else's friend?"
"Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us because it makes him feel better about himself. He's a very vengeful God, Stan. He's
all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it. So he doesn't care who he takes - children,
puppies, it don't matter to him so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand"
"Then why does he give us anything to start with?"
"Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lolly-pop, then you take it away. If you never give it a
lolly-pop to begin with, then it'd have nothing to cry about. That's like God - who
gives us life and love and health, just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry. So, he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see,
it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power."
"... I think I understand."
- Stan and Chef, "South Park"
Oh, and [rant mode off].
Dominic
[Edited on 1/4/2004 by TheGecko]
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Noodle
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 09:41 AM |
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quote:
...because Allah is waiting with 72 virgins for me.
Is that true? I'm converting!
Cheers,
Neil.
Your sort make me sick
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Peteff
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 10:14 AM |
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I haven't seen it either.
I watched the news the other day where Muslims were dragging the mutilated bodies of people through the street behind cars and then hanging them up on
display in front of a crowd of cheering onlookers including children. Admittedly they were the foreigners who had invaded their homeland but their
action was not that of people who have any kind of principles, religious or otherwise but that of a baying angry mob. I am an agnostic not an atheist,
show me something and I'll believe it exists. My opinion is that religion was the first law, with its simplistic ten commandments the basis for
how society has to behave to survive if it is not to revert to jungle law, the strongest takes all and might is right. The discussion is endless with
different strengths, mental and physical and agility being relevant in different contexts but it eventually evens out with the need for people to
accept the rules society lays down. The story of Jesus is an illustration of what will happen if the wrong people are making the rules and shows us
what will happen if we let it. My opinion but I am entitled to it and if anyone else wants to take the Bible more literally, not treat it as a
metaphor then they are entitled to that as well.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Jayce Lane
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 10:36 AM |
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Dear The GEKO
quote:
Faith is believing that one man Jesus Christ has died on the cross for our sins, and through him and believing in him we are made right with
God, and therefore are not subject to judgement.
This is just so f*cked up I want to vomit! You aren't subject to judgement because god had his only son killed!?! I believe that I'm
subject to judgement by the society I live in and by my own sense of ethics and morals. If you're saying that you don't need to worry
about judgement because your buddy god has taken care of it already.... well, stay the hell away from me!
In response to your reply, I am not saying that I am totally exempt from judgement, just as you are judged by society so am I. I am even judged by my
fellow christians and if need be am rebuked. I judge myself everyday!!! But if I am saying that I am judged but not judged what do I mean?
Well its quite simple, being absolved (free from) of sin does not mean that I can continue sinning so that GOD's grace can be seen to be
increased. That would just make a mockery of the purpose of Jesus Christ. I am however reminded and judged; by the example that Christ has set,
which I am to follow.
I have been given a gift, but I have an obligation to that gift. One does not reward Mercy with disdain but rather with gratitude. I have been saved
(freed from death by sin), however I still need to work out my salvation (repayment in kind).
Finally, GEKO I am not better than anyone else in this world. I am just like you. I make mistakes daily, can seldom keep my own promises and find my
morals and conscience tested everyday.
Dear Joel,
I am sorry to hear about your loss (if I read your post correctly). I just want to remind you that Jesus Christ came to help sinners. His time on
earth was spent talking to ,eating with and socialising with harlots, tax collectors, the lame the blind all those that were rejected by their
society.
Good people dont go to heaven is a true and untrue statement. By the worlds standards I am most probably a half decent bloke, nice family, nice home,
two dogs, swears seldom, has the odd couple of beers and so forth.
However just as good as I seem, my heart has other ideas like checking out other woman, pornography, and kicking the dog. Ultimately being good does
not mean you get into heaven, because you can say " I did it all by myself". If this was true there would be no need for Jesus Christ
(the only man to have resisted sin and temptation), and secondly no one can remain true to themselves, we are unable to keep our slate clean.
Good people go to heaven when they acknowledge that they can only do it with accepting Jesus Christ in their lives and living out the example he set
(hence them appearing to be good in the eyes of the world)
And by the way GEKO may find this interesting, but your statement about christian ethics making the world a better place is true, at has formed the
morals of the society that judges GEKO, but is unrecognisable because to our true nature we have twisted morals, to serve our own needs at some or
other point in time.
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sgraber
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 02:13 PM |
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Religion and Sexuality. We have already had the Sexuality topic and that almost blew up a few people...
Will this be happening here? Or will cooler heads prevail?
Graber
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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JoelP
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 05:00 PM |
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Cheers Jayce, twas my girlfriends (gf's!) gramps but it felt personal anyway. I never appreciated old people til i got to know him.
Time will tell, if nothing else.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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GasGasGas
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 05:35 PM |
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I've not seen the film and it does'nt really have any appeal to my taste of cinematography.
I've heard plenty of opinion about it's content and its "message", and all i have to say about the film is "IT'S A
HOLLYWOOD FILM".
Its not an attack on any person or belief, its "A FILM", the only people who take afront to its content are those who are looking to blame
someone else for their own dicisions and insecurities.
LET ALL RELEGIONS TAKE NOTE ;
The world would be a far more peaceful place if it was'nt for religions and their secular pomposity and beligerant superiority .
My opinion by a man who tries to be honest to himself and others !!
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 08:37 AM |
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I have to say that I find it very frustrating when I see the words 'I Haven't seen the film myself but....'
If you haven't seen it then keep your ill-informed opinions to yourself.
Its like saying I haven't driven an MK but in my opinion it handles much better than Luego....
And yes - I HAVE seen it
To be honest I did find it a little disturbing, however my partner has an extremely good knowledge of the Bible and apparently it is very accurate to
the book of Matthew. (with the notable and bloody stupid exception of Jesus inventing the dining table! - what were they thinking off?)
The Bible states thet Jesus was scourged more than any man..... well anyone who has seen the film will agree, that point was certainly made.
Disturbing ? YES - but then wasn't it supposed to be ?
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 10:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by protofj
I have to say that I find it very frustrating when I see the words 'I Haven't seen the film myself but....'
right
so the fact that I can say I dont want sex with a man is wrong?
Cos I havnt tried it?
bollox.
You can have an idea of what you expect to see (ie reviews) and make an informed opinion.
I havnt seen the earth from space myself, but I know from those that have its round.
gonna have to doubt that now.
Thats different from a prejudiced view, when you dont have a clue but make a sweeping summation.
what about god and jesus - I mean - I havnt seen them and I only have peoples opinions in a 2000 year odl book to go from. On that basis how can I
make a decision on religion thats any more sound than commenting on a film I havnt seen.
Faith. Strange thing. If you need proof, you have no faith. If you have faith, without proof, you have faith in what exactly?
I suspect many people of religious persuasion see the film as some kinda forced compulsion - dont wanna let god and jesus down by not seeing what
'really happend' and feeling guilty about it.
Jesus was undoubtedly a nice bloke, but as for proof that he was what he said, and not, at the extreme, a religious zealot, who knows?
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Jayce Lane
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 10:56 AM |
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Dear Stephen
In questioning the claims that Jesus made, and being unsure whether he was a religios zealot or not, I do have a suggestion for you.
A very well known lawyer, systematically tried to dispute the existance and claims of Christ, he wrote a book about it.
I dont have the name of the author, but I believe the book is entiled "who moved the stone", I could be wrong. However I will check with
someone over the weekend and get back to you with title and author.
Another good book to read is by Ravi Zacharias it is entitled "The shattered visage of atheism". It is an apologetic book, but the
ultimate statement is that if we follow our own hearts and minds and believe that God does not exist, the conclusion will be that we become a person
like Hitler.
I believe that it is sometimes better to get it from the experts.
However, I welcome any questions personally addressed to me.
cheers
Jayce
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stutz
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 11:01 AM |
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Reminds me of the Billy Connolly film, "The man who sued God".
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 12:00 PM |
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there must be a lot of hitlers in the world then.
strange we dont see that many
atb
steve
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