Stuart_B
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 04:45 PM |
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eaton supercharger
hi all, i have a nice duratec engine now, and getting ready for the winter projetc coming from a 1.6 pinto, to a 2.0 duartec, but this is maybe next
year upgrade, of supercharing it, so i know eaton say you can use the eaton m45 between 1.0 and 2.0 engine, but will give acuutal be ok, and give the
power gain i want?
as i know it is used on 1.6 and 1.8, jsut wondering does sombody use it on a 2.0?
thanks
stuart
black mk indy, 1.6pinto on cbr600 bike carb's.
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goaty
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 04:54 PM |
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fitting it in the engine bay will be your main issue.
Eatons are good but they produce alot of heat compared to others on the market.Being cheap is there advantage in my eyes.
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Stuart_B
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 05:02 PM |
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packaging issue, i think i can fit the m45, under the throttle bodies on the passengers side of the car, and get the pipes made up ali.
heat wise, i think the new 5th gentrartion have a differnt coating, so run cooler, but what temp of heat are we talking about, would it affect the
fuel, if it is placed below the throttle bodies?
cheers
staurt
black mk indy, 1.6pinto on cbr600 bike carb's.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 05:08 PM |
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The eaton M45 is a substantial beast. I looked at fitting one under the bonnet with the pinto but it was a no hoper.
Remember you have the inlet on the back end and the outlet is on one of the bigger flat sides.
THey also need to run the right way up IIRC due to the gearbox oil.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Stuart_B
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 05:14 PM |
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me and my mate where disscusing that today at collage, but seeing he is a good metal fabicator, and i am learing we reckoned it can be overcome.
about which way up it goes, which way is the right way, as i might be looking them fitting it wrong, and pics with arows will be great.
stuart
black mk indy, 1.6pinto on cbr600 bike carb's.
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Benzine
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 05:27 PM |
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I was pretty sure you could fit them anyway up :/ maybe not...
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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flibble
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 05:32 PM |
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I used an m45 on a 2.5 v6 (Mazda KLDE)and it coped fine for a meagre 7psi, no issues at all. That was also spinning at nearly 17000 rpm at max revs
when the safe limit was written as 15000 ish.
Only used it for a few thousand miles as was more to prove a point that it can be done for less than the £2k that some forum chavs insisted was
minimum - cost about £400 all in all (including a wideband), although was a bit of a backyard special, lol
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clairetoo
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 06:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flibble
I used an m45 on a 2.5 v6 (Mazda KLDE)and it coped fine for a meagre 7psi, no issues at all.
Now that is interesting - got any pictures or idea of what sort of power it made ?
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 07:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Stuart_B
hi all, i have a nice duratec engine now, and getting ready for the winter projetc coming from a 1.6 pinto, to a 2.0 duartec, but this is maybe next
year upgrade, of supercharing it, so i know eaton say you can use the eaton m45 between 1.0 and 2.0 engine, but will give acuutal be ok, and give the
power gain i want?
Without knowing the power gain you want, it's hard to say 
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flak monkey
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 07:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
quote:
Originally posted by flibble
I used an m45 on a 2.5 v6 (Mazda KLDE)and it coped fine for a meagre 7psi, no issues at all.
Now that is interesting - got any pictures or idea of what sort of power it made ?
I would expect that it would make 50% up on whatever it was putting out NA with 7psi of boost
Oh and Stuart an M45 is fine for a 2 litre engine. 15000rpm max input speed should allow you to get up to around 12psi I should think.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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clairetoo
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 07:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
quote:
Originally posted by flibble
I used an m45 on a 2.5 v6 (Mazda KLDE)and it coped fine for a meagre 7psi, no issues at all.
Now that is interesting - got any pictures or idea of what sort of power it made ?
I would expect that it would make 50% up on whatever it was putting out NA with 7psi of boost
Mmmmmmmmmm..................interesting
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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Benzine
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 07:34 PM |
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god i love superchargers & locostbuilders
definitely not drunk atm!
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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ss1turbo
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 07:50 PM |
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I'd almost forgotten about the M45 i have hiding away for a "rainy day" project..
Silly buggers time here - which order do you run them if you want sequential? Turbo then supercharger i guess as the Eaton s/c is a postive
displacement unit.
Second silly question - do you need to bleed the air off when running at idle/cruise?
Sorry for the thread hijack..
Long live RWD...
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BenB
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 08:05 PM |
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Would have thought the M45 would be a bit small for 2.0L engine.... Depends how many PSI you want to blow....
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flibble
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 08:05 PM |
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quote:
Now that is interesting - got any pictures or idea of what sort of power it made ?
Never had it dynoed(sp?) so it's all guesswork but It never used to spin its wheels past first but would spin in second and sometimes chirp them
in third if you tried hard enough with the charger on.
I very much doubt I got 50% extra on the 160hp standard, maybe 40-50hp more at the top? (with the obvious torque increase at the bottom being more
noticeable).
No intercooler and for fuel I used 2 cold start valves with seperate pressure switches, one came in at 2psi, the second at 6psi, afr wandered around
11.5 - 13 so not too bad for a cheap project
I'll try and find some old piccies of it even though it wasn't pretty, lol.
Edit:
quote:
Second silly question - do you need to bleed the air off when running at idle/cruise?
Yes, and make sure it's a recirc type or you'll drive everywhere with a very loud pssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh until you floor the accelerator
[Edited on 2/10/09 by flibble]
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ss1turbo
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 08:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flibble
quote:
Second silly question - do you need to bleed the air off when running at idle/cruise?
Yes, and make sure it's a recirc type or you'll drive everywhere with a very loud pssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh until you floor the accelerator
[Edited on 2/10/09 by flibble]
I take it there's a specific valve for s/c applications then - not a turbo-style one (as they only kick in at very high vacuum figures)?
Long live RWD...
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flak monkey
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 08:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ss1turbo
I take it there's a specific valve for s/c applications then - not a turbo-style one (as they only kick in at very high vacuum figures)?
#
Nope you just run a std BOV exactly the same as a turbo one. It shouldnt blow all the time unless you floor it, as flibble says unless there is
something wrong with the valve. It will only let the pressure escape under high vac (ie when the throttle is closed quicky).
There is no need to vent boost at idle or cruise as their wont be very much as engine speed will not be high enough.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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flibble
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 08:38 PM |
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I'm pretty sure on mine that it used to vent pretty much all the time unless you were hard on the accelerator, I remember forgetting to hook up
the BOV properly once and when I started the car the idle was enough to pop off the hoses to the throttle.
If you unhooked the recirc pipework you could hear it vent until you put your foot down, it is afer all kicking out 7psi from pretty much idle to
redline?!?
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flak monkey
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 08:59 PM |
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Nope supercharger should build boost with rpm. Youll get virtually no boost at tickover up to max at redline. Should be reasonably linear between the
2.
BOV certainly shouldnt vent under any conditions other than high vaccum.
Sounds like something wasnt right with your set up somewhere.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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ss1turbo
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 09:04 PM |
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Depends on the supercharger - positive displacement (like the Eaton) or a centrifugal (like a Sprintex)..
Long live RWD...
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flak monkey
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| posted on 2/10/09 at 09:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ss1turbo
Depends on the supercharger - positive displacement (like the Eaton) or a centrifugal (like a Sprintex)..
Doesnt matter, neither will produce much boost at low rpm
A positive displacement blower will produce more boost at lower revs than a centrifugal yes, but this is coped with through tuning and boost still
rises with rpm.
There is no need to vent boost unless on overrun.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Stuart_B
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| posted on 3/10/09 at 05:48 AM |
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thanks for the good info, i have been strugling to find good info,
so 50% sounds good to me.
cheers
stuart
black mk indy, 1.6pinto on cbr600 bike carb's.
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Mave
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| posted on 3/10/09 at 07:04 AM |
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I know of two 2.0 Zetecs running an M45. The engines are stock. One has 203 bhp (search for "zetec supercharger" on youtube and
you'll find it). The other one has 213 bhp. So yes, 50% increase sounds about right.
I'm in the middle of such a conversion myself.
But you can't place the charger in front of the throttle bodies. TB has to be in front of charger on an Eaton (positive displacement charger).
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flibble
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| posted on 3/10/09 at 07:35 AM |
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quote:
Doesnt matter, neither will produce much boost at low rpm
I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with that.
The M45 etc are fixed displacement air pumps, not compressors - for each revolution of the engine they kick out a fixed amount of air, every rev of
the engine requires a fixed amount of air., at 1 rpm or 10,000 the bosst calculates to the same result (althhough in reality it does vary a small
amount from idle to redline).
I've been wrong before though
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 3/10/09 at 10:21 AM |
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The M45 will work on 2.0L to 3.0L cars.
Look Here for more information.
Ive been looking to put mine on the 1.8 Zetec (130ps) that i have, and the possibilities of twin superchargers. Look at the supercharger map. Its
confusing to start with, but once you learn what youre looking at it will tell you what you need to do for pulley sizes, and how much Pressure Ratio
and boost you will get at certain speeds.
On the left, there is also a calculator to tell you what you should get theroetically...
[Edited on 3/10/09 by MakeEverything]
[Edited on 3/10/09 by MakeEverything]
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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