interestedparty
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| posted on 21/8/10 at 07:42 AM |
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Comparison- track modified production car v. kit car?
One of the things about kit cars is that, mostly, there is nothing on them that doesn't absolutely need to be, so of course they are much
lighter than production cars.
OTOH, production cars have lots of stuff which isn't needed such as sound deadening, accessories, heavy seats, air con, plastic mouldings etc
etc
So what I was wondering is if you got say a BMW 3 series and stripped everything out that didnt need to be there, so that it was a basic as a kit car,
what would the performance difference be over something like a kit car based on the same donor parts?
The kit would be lower too, of course, but the production car would have better aerodynamics so that would be factors to consider
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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irvined
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| posted on 21/8/10 at 07:59 AM |
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I think weight would still be one of the biggest issues, even if you stripped everything except the seat, steering wheel and pedals out of the shell,
it probably weighs at least as much as a seven chassis. Not to mention the weight of the subframes and suspension components.
In (at least some?) kit cars, the suspension is designed for performance rather than for comfort/ease of manufacture, whereas in a production car,
more compromises will have been made.
Otoh, I've been considering a stripped out 3 series as a ring toy....
http://irvined.blogspot.com
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adithorp
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| posted on 21/8/10 at 08:16 AM |
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There's plenty of completely striped out tin-tops doing track days and although they're quick, most of them are just modile chicanes. Put
in a good driver (compared to my poor efforts) and things get closer.
Chris Mason or Paul Fisher are embarasingly quick in thier Clios, particularly if it's damp and they know the circuit and you don't... and
they'll happily mug you all day long.
adrian
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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nick205
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| posted on 21/8/10 at 08:16 AM |
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A 4 door saloon is never going to get that close to the weight of a 7'esque.
Take something like a 205 which IIRC weighs around 950kg as standard, then you might get somewhere near IF you go the whole hog with placky windows,
cf bonnet...etc, etc.
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franky
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| posted on 21/8/10 at 08:27 AM |
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A stripped out e36 m3 still comes in at 1200ish kg's. Great tin top track cars but still 500kg more than a seven with the running gear and a
cage etc.
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StevieB
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| posted on 21/8/10 at 09:13 AM |
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Depends on the production car really.
I've been speaking with a guy who races midgets and his car comes in at 460kg, still running an a-series engine.
My R1 Indy weighed that - when I stick an R1 in my midget and remove everything, it should be even lighter still. And I won't have modified the
chassis in any way so it'll be on the road with it's 1963 plates (except it will be running coilovers all round and a 5 link rear axle).
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gottabedone
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| posted on 21/8/10 at 09:33 AM |
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That's an interesting question as it makes you thing about the age old conversation about Fwd/RWD. The Pauls are awesome in their front wheel
drive, front engined cars. If their power to weight ratio was the same as a locost that they were racing - who would win? - a general thought and not
worth fighting over!
There are a lot of really nicely sorted propper hot hatches out there with millions spent on development and tuning, yet we dump all of their running
gear for a weight saving (and many reasons) and incur many handling problems that come with it.
I vote for tin top with a similar power to weight.
Steve
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A1
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| posted on 21/8/10 at 11:38 AM |
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remember that topgear article where they took a clio and ripped it out to see how much difference? coulda been staged, but it made no difference to
the original time... which surprises me...
id like to think a well designed kitcar is going to be better.
I was at the british gt championships at knockhill and there was a 700hp focus in a race with a car engined westfield, cant remember the power of it,
but he was all over the focus apart from on the straight.
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GMPMotorsport
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| posted on 21/8/10 at 01:05 PM |
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I think there are a lot of things that you need to take into account when comparing, ie FWD v RWD, what circuit, Cadwell favors a kit car where as
Mallory would favor a tin top and of course the ability of the driver in which ever car will always tip the balance.
www.gmpdevelopments.co.uk
www.gmpmotorsport.co.uk
ARDS Instructer.
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PSpirine
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| posted on 21/8/10 at 01:09 PM |
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A stripped out mini (proper mini) can come to 500kg (with use of fibreglass bonnet etc.).
Even with iron A-series power, you can get 130hp out of a NA 1380cc engine. 16 valvers come close to 180hp.
Not sure they'd be much slower than some kits on a track to be honest - and no more friendly for daily use.
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 21/8/10 at 06:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by franky
A stripped out e36 m3 still comes in at 1200ish kg's. Great tin top track cars but still 500kg more than a seven with the running gear and a
cage etc.
Unless the kit is a BEC, then its more like 700kgs more. 
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 22/8/10 at 09:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by franky
A stripped out e36 m3 still comes in at 1200ish kg's. Great tin top track cars but still 500kg more than a seven with the running gear and a
cage etc.
You know I'm sure the mk2 Mondeo comes out at about that as standard, 1200-1500kg iirc
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 23/8/10 at 10:06 AM |
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I've got my RX7 down to 1180kgs from it's original 1280-1300 kgs (but with a V8 conversion). To get below 1100kgs will require doors,
glass etc. to be changed.
Though the mass can affect acceleration it can also help with braking and grip. Apart from having bigger wheels and tyres the weight over the tyres
can hep to get the best out of them. My Striker was quite easy to over brake and lock the wheels. Where in the RX7 I can stamp on the brakes in the
dry or wet and stand the car on it's nose!
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