T66
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 11:37 AM |
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Gearshifters - Solenoid/Pneumatic Type
My little Fiat project is coming along very well, we are now looking at the gear change options.
The original plan was for mechanical cables operated by my MNR paddles, linked to my Trickshifter Pro to cut the fuel/Ign.
Now we are discussing a change of plan , from paddles to maybe a kliktronic/Pro Shift type - button setup on the steering wheel, we are very limited
on engine bay space. And have yet to look at dry sump/cooling/fuel storage etc.
So whats the opinions here on the kliktronic compared to other products, Im only aware of Pro Shifter, so there will be others, the klik price is
reasonable in my eyes. Feel free to point me at any similar products.
Also are there any implications for the iva regarding push button steering wheel mounted gearchangers ?
[Edited on 23/11/10 by T66]
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Blackbird Rush
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 12:30 PM |
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i have a kliktronic shifter (solonoid not pneumatic) and its great!, have mine hooked up to paddle shifts with switches built in.
Passed IVA no probs.
Getting it into Neutral is a bugger though!
Ash.
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T66
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 01:06 PM |
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How do you get on with the shift , is it docile /easy to function when driven easily ?
did you set it up yourself ?
Does it ever miss gears when going hard ?
The current thoughts are to put buttons on the steering wheel, as opposed to using the paddles to work switches.
cheers
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tony-devon
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 01:42 PM |
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another vote for kliktronic, mine was reliable and good to use, but as mentioned, finding neutral can be fun
heavy is good, heavy is reliable, and if it breaks, hit them with it
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T66
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 02:25 PM |
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Klicktronic...
Does it blip for clutchless downchanges ?
I have just read a thread about mating it up to a Trickshifter Pro which has the blipper facility, which is something I already have in my garage.
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hobbsy
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 05:26 PM |
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The KlitTronic is just a shifter - it doesn't have any TrickShifter/ProShifter features built in like ignition cut or throttle blip
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T66
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 05:45 PM |
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cheers,
Yes i have since discovered that....I want the blipper down shift.
Plan has been adapted to mate a kliktronic type solenoid to my Trickshift Pro setup. The company that took over Trick now called Flatshifter also sell
a solenoid to match the trickshift pro, but its £500 + vat.
So I am still on the hunt for a locost version.
PS what exactly does the klit tronic do then ??
[Edited on 23/11/10 by T66]
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hobbsy
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 05:52 PM |
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There is no reason why you can't use any form of solenoid or even an airshifter with the Trickshifter setup as long as the Trickshifter sensor
linkage detects its movement. I use a Techtronics powershifter with mine - this has its own ignition cut circuitry built in but I don't use its
one - I just use the trickshifter ignition cut (and its throttle blip).
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T66
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 05:58 PM |
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Ive emailed a few guys in the USA , these button shift setups are popular with Harley owners & Sports bikes owners.
Their prices come in a lot lower than here in Blighty.
So just a case of buying one, thanks again.
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hobbsy
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 06:00 PM |
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Are these US made shifters your looking at?
If you find anything decent and cheap please post links here on the thread as I'd be interested to see the cost / packaging etc.
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T66
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 06:13 PM |
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Will do once I know a little more ...
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gingerprince
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 06:44 PM |
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I have Kliktronic shifter with Techtronic ignition cut doobrey. With the ignition cut, it can be a bit hard when "pootling", since the
cut is timed for a fast change - at which it's great by the way!
When I'm pootling, I'll either use the clutch to "slow down" the shift process, or more usually fall back to my manual gear
lever - which also makes neutral a much easier find 
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T66
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 06:55 PM |
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There lies one of my problems, no room for a gearstick/manual setup.
Dipping the clutch will help when pootling, or maybe just letting the blip/cut do its thing.
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hobbsy
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 07:08 PM |
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Yeah I retained my stick when fitting the "electronic" paddles just in case it went t1ts up so I have a back up.
Also useful for finding neutral as he said ^^^
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T66
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 06:25 AM |
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Right then.....
In the USA the name Pingel is fairly common in Harley circles , for providing button shifters.
My Harley riding brother in Texas was telling me recently...
I bought a Pingel last night for $425 (£267) its unused and is missing a few screws, but is otherwise fine.
http://www.pingelonline.com/eshifter.htm
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 01:34 PM |
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How does the pingel system deal with coming back down the box - it doesnt seem to blip the throttle as far as I can tell, and it looks remarkably like
the kliktronics system with ignition cut?
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hobbsy
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 03:25 PM |
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From a glance the Pingel actuator looks pretty much exactly like the Kliktronic unit.
Then again you see what look like the same parts across other kits - i.e. the autoblip actuator on the trickshifter and the more expensive Proshift
systems look identical.
Hmm.
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T66
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 03:32 PM |
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If you watch the videos on the Pingel site, they go up through the box fine, and on a trailing throttle they downchange
But only as the speed has been scrubbed off, i plan to address that by linking it with my Trickshifter Pro like this...
http://bristolkitcarclub.co.uk/smf2/index.php?topic=416.0
Some electronic fettling will be needed, but I am reasonably confident we will come up with a solution using the Pingel.
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adithorp
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 03:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hobbsy
The KlitTronic is just a shifter -
Is that available from Anne Summers?
adrian
ps Hobbsy, remind us again why your car is off the road?
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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T66
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 04:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
quote:
Originally posted by hobbsy
The KlitTronic is just a shifter -
Is that available from Anne Summers?
adrian
ps Hobbsy, remind us again why your car is off the road?
I did ask whether it was a slip of the finger to cause such an error, but received no reply.
Maybe if I used something called Klitronic on my car, her indoors might pay more interest in where Im squandering my money.
And yes you can probably buy it from Ann Summers
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hobbsy
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 04:09 PM |
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I wondered if my slip of the keyboard would go unnoticed
I'm not entirely sure if my gearbox spat its teeth due to oversimulation of the "man in the boat" by electro-mechanical means or if
it would have happened anyway if I'd just been using my hands
Joking aside it was a largely unknown engine. Isn't there some technical post from Hewland saying that automated shifts with ignition cut are
the best for dog engagement sequential boxes? Although I appreciate his boxes are designed for use in a car and we are generally operating these bike
engine boxes outside what they were designed for.
It used to be here:
http://www.hewland.com/svga/help.htm
But looks like they've re-arranged their website.
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T66
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 05:08 PM |
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Yes there is, read it yesterday...
By all accounts the gear dogs suffer, because the solenoid type systems are unsympathetic.
Geartronics make reference to that article in their blurb from Hewland..
http://www.geartronics.co.uk/closedloop.htm
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hobbsy
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 06:08 PM |
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The updated link for the Hewland article (has been posted several times on here before):
http://www.hewland.com/svga/advice.html
Interesting Geartronics article. Their complete setup isn't cheap though is it!
Edited to say: I've emailed Geartronics - I may use one of their ECU's to control my setup. It all makes perfect sense and the ECU (or
GCU!) itself is fairly reasonable at £195+VAT.
Just waiting to hear back if they have managed to fit one of the selector barrel sensors (effectively just a high quality potentiometer) into an R1
engine.
Its feasible I think it would just require some clever bracketry under the cover? I can't remember what it looks like without a photo and
I'm not at home.
Closed loop would take away the pain of what may have worn my 3rd gear dogs out (over time) and theoretically give the perfect shift and less wear
than any other shift method - I guess this is what Mr Hewland means when he says a "the engine is cut / re-instated in a co-ordinated
manner".
[Edited on 24/11/10 by hobbsy]
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hobbsy
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 06:53 PM |
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Geartronics seem to slate solenoids (they supply a pneumatic system) however my Techtronics power shifter isn't a solenoid - its a linear
actuator. Its a electric motor spinning at 30 to 40krpm with a planetary gearbox etc so while it may be affected by some of the downsides they list
it shouldn't be affected by all of them. And besides if their GCU box is clever enough it shouldn't matter too much if the shifts are
slightly inconsistent as it measures exactly where you are in the shift and dynamically adjusts the cut (and blip - hopefully!) time to suit.
[Edited on 25/11/10 by hobbsy]
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T66
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| posted on 24/11/10 at 07:35 PM |
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Likewise - Dont know if a suitable device exists to watch the Blackbird gear shaft - If it can be done for speculating £200 on a geartronics gizmo, I
will be having one...
My gearchange is looking at best part of £600 so far, with another £200-300 yet to find.
I want reliable & painless, and the last thing I want is to pop the gearbox..
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