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Author: Subject: BEC Extra Powwaaa
Yazza54

posted on 23/11/10 at 12:41 PM Reply With Quote
BEC Extra Powwaaa

Hi, I have a 5PW engined Fury spyder.

The car is, well, rapid. But it is SO subjective to weight. As I'm now used to the performance, when I have a passenger in the car it does put a bit of a blunt on the performance. Still very fast, but not quite so sharp. Passenger was only about 65kg so not a fatty either.

I guess there are two options... try to save some weight... it is about 460kg now. All I have left to lose weight on are shocks and rear calipers. The calipers are std cast sierra and the shocks are AVO steel coilovers. I could fit protechs and hispec rears to match the fronts. It won't save a massive amount though.

The other thing is front uprights, but they are sierra and I understand there are no ally ones to swap to. Apparently there used to be but they were prone to cracking and were discontinued..



So.. power then...

Two options really, overbore the R1 (though I've heard anything more than 1mm is unsafe), up compression and cam.. then get it mapped again on the power commander. Plus this will be gains up the rev range, which won't necessarily be what I'm after in terms of pulling the weight..

Or.. a different motor... which would probably give me what I want, but get very involved?? ZX12, 14 or busa.


I've not had the car long, these are generally ideas for the future, but if it's decided that the best option power wise is to change the motor then I won't bother tuning the R1 in the meantime.





I'm unhappy cos I eat and I eat cos I'm unhappy

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CraigJ

posted on 23/11/10 at 12:44 PM Reply With Quote
Turbo it.






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Yazza54

posted on 23/11/10 at 12:47 PM Reply With Quote
I'm a bit skeptical of turbo'ing it. I don't want to stress the gearbox to death and risk reliability. I also think N/A is more suited to a lightweight car.





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mcerd1

posted on 23/11/10 at 12:52 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Yazza54
....I also think N/A is more suited to a lightweight car.

how about a supercharger then ?





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Hellfire

posted on 23/11/10 at 12:57 PM Reply With Quote
Stop carrying passengers.

If it's for road driving, then I'd suggest you accept it. You could throw loads of cash at the car to lighten it up a bit but you'll still feel a drop in power when carrying passengers. Even if you fit a larger capacity engine, you'll still feel the difference with a passenger, although it won't be so noticeable.

If you want to keep the reliability, you need to keep it standard and N/A IMHO.

Phil






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Johneturbo

posted on 23/11/10 at 01:01 PM Reply With Quote
I had the same dilemma

Only sensable option for me was to move upto a ZZR14 from R1, once you work out the cost of turbo/supercharging and modifying the engine to cope there isn't much in it and i think the 14 will be more reliable

and hopefuly with 2up the drop of in performace will be less noticable

cost is about 1500/2,000 that's with me doing the engine mounts myself and getting someone to weld them for me

and selling my old engine kit

ps i've not finished it yet so don't really know how it will perform untill next year

i know someone on here who did the same even had the same R1 engine and moved up to the 14 and he says it amazing so pinkys crossed!

[Edited on 23/11/10 by Johneturbo]

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Yazza54

posted on 23/11/10 at 01:09 PM Reply With Quote
Are they drastically different to fit?

Thought that, wonder what the 5pw is worth in mine.. 9k from new..

What's the going rate for the zx14?





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Johneturbo

posted on 23/11/10 at 01:21 PM Reply With Quote
They are a bit taller than the R1 but not sure by how much

i think i will have to fit a scoop, also the cradle has also had to be modified and the chassis mounts

the plus side is they don't seem to need to be dry sumped, however the sump does sit very low and the oil filter is intergrated into the sump

Andy bates does a billet sump that relocates the oil filter to where the standard oil cooler is and then run a front mounted oil cooler, i've not got that yet as i'm just working on getting the engine fitted then run

Also hydraulic clucth but thats not to big a problem i'm just using a busa master cylinder, the header from the R1 can be modified but i'm far from that stage yet.


prices are about 2k on ebay if you can find one, or try Malc at yorkshire engines

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A1

posted on 23/11/10 at 01:43 PM Reply With Quote
also the zx14 can be turbod much higher than an r1
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coozer

posted on 23/11/10 at 01:51 PM Reply With Quote
Cheaper to install a modded zetec IMO.





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eddie99

posted on 23/11/10 at 02:35 PM Reply With Quote
If you've got a reliable engine at the mo, i'd stay with it You could do a weight saving exercise, which is what i would do, carbon panels? stuff like that? lots of things you can do to these type of cars to save some weight.

If you spend 2k on a new engine, it might not be as reliable, and you will only get bored of that in a years time and want more.

Whatever BEC you use, having a passenger will make the thing feel slower!





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Yazza54

posted on 23/11/10 at 02:41 PM Reply With Quote
I'm only interested in bike engines I will not give up the Bec experience!!

Tbh a tuned zetec is all well and good but the extra power the engine brings will be offset by it's own weight and the weight of the gearbox surely. Anyway, I like the bike engine route, so much fun.

I wonder if I can screw a tractable 180hp from the current motor. Hmm. I think the key thing I have to accept like you're all saying is that it will blunt the performance whatever bike engine is fitted. Or car engine for that matter (however maybe less noticeably).

Tbh it's probably because I'm used to the speed, my passenger couldn't catch his breath the first time I took him out

[Edited on 23/11/10 by Yazza54]





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eddie99

posted on 23/11/10 at 03:14 PM Reply With Quote
Yeah you always get used to speed, whatever you get, you will get used to it if you use it regularly!





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Moorron

posted on 23/11/10 at 04:09 PM Reply With Quote
so the upgrade bug hits! When i first bought my CBR1000F engined kitcar off a member on here i said to myself i would NEVER need to make it faster. 2 years later i wanted more power and after looking at the costs i decided to DIY turbo mine and if it didnt work i would upgrade, to turbo it cost me about 200 and alot of my time but was fun, wheel spinning in 6th at this time of the year was great but sadley it blew up. I wasnt too bothered as the engine was using oil and would have needed a rebuild anyway.

I did the right thing and upgraded to a ZX12, did all the work myself and managed it over a winter and the wiring was far the hardest part. It only took 1 weekend to fit the engine as i was lucky and the original prop fitted in length, the exhaust was very close too so only needed a slit and reweld here and there.

I modded to sump myself and tuned it with a LC1 which is ok for now until i can get it on a rolling road.

HOWEVER the ZX12 engine from a seller on here used lots of oil from the start, i didnt argue it with the seller (im not the argueing type) and replaced it with another from a rival engine supplier and it worked great, took 3 hours to swap over.

The difference in power from an old and knackered 130 bhp engine to a 180 bhp modern efi engine was very noticable, it starts on a dime (old cbr was a pain) and is more drivable.

The original car came with nitrouse oxide but i never used it and its still sitting on my garage shelf so maybe i should hook it up to the new engine? lol

I wouldnt mod the R1, only as others have pointed out i would be nervous of it going pop all the time when out and about.
I am well happy with mine and i did spent way too much on a turbo and 2 new engines (lost 1k). Gearing is also better with this engine as the old one topped out at 115 so has saved me spending some money on a new rare diff = 3.14.

good luck





Sorry about my spelling, im an engineer and only work in numbers.

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hobbsy

posted on 23/11/10 at 05:29 PM Reply With Quote
Kent Cams (YAM11 from memory) are *supposed* to give up to 20bhp (according to an ex-BSB mechanic) on the 5PW.

I have a pair but not fitted them. Was considering a turbo fit but at the moment I've got a broken gearbox so will probably just get that fixed and drive it for a while.

If you find the right roads you don't really need much more power to have wicked fun - although I was (and still do sometimes) convincing myself that you can never have too much power

I'll do the turbo fit one day, until then I'll just keep collecting the bits at the right price...

Edited to say - for the labour costs vs gain I wouldn't bother with an overbore. Out of all the trick bits they put on the BSB engines apparently the cams are the single largest gain and arguably the easiest to fit. Guess you still need to get it remapped to make the most of it though which is gonna be a few hundred?

[Edited on 23/11/10 by hobbsy]

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rf900rush

posted on 23/11/10 at 06:54 PM Reply With Quote
Early this year I upgaded from anf RF900 to A ZX12R.

Not as noticeable difference as I was expecting.
Although a passenger does not have such an impact now.

The only BEC thing I think will be enough this the Busa/ZX12/14 Turbos.

I have had the fortune to have a ride in a Busa Turbo , which unforunatly makes every thing else seem slow.

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adithorp

posted on 23/11/10 at 07:05 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hobbsy
If you find the right roads you don't really need much more power to have wicked fun - although I was (and still do sometimes) convincing myself that you can never have too much power

[Edited on 23/11/10 by hobbsy]


That sounds about right.... but I guess i'll find a use for an extra 20+bhp





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hobbsy

posted on 23/11/10 at 07:07 PM Reply With Quote
Hmm - you upgrading yours then Adi? Engine swap? Already? Please do tell!
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Yazza54

posted on 23/11/10 at 07:19 PM Reply With Quote
I guess the cams are worth a try then remap it, already have the power commander so no biggie there. Apparently from looking on the r1 forums one of the most effective things to do aswell as the cams is to skim the head to up the comp to around 12.5:1. Was looking at the je pistons but they're like 13.5... Sounds too high for road use/road fuel. I do like the r1 engine and I only really want a bit more oomph. I thought it would be dead peaky being a bike engine but it's quite tractable. A bit of a kick would be nice!

Another thing! Airbox needed, can anyone recommend one. It'll have to be shallowish to fit under the bonnet. I have a lot of induction noise, exhaust isn't too loud. I'll never get on a trackday as it is currently unless it's a no limits one. Oulton park is only down the road so it'd be nice to get to 105db and take it there!





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adithorp

posted on 23/11/10 at 07:28 PM Reply With Quote
Just a wee upgrade.
I was looking for a spare engine for a while then came across a tuned and fettled 5VY. Lightened balanced crank and rods, raised compresion, ported and polished head and endurance race cams. Putting out over 190 at the wheel in the bike and 15% more torque than standard.
Capable of running with an extra 1000+ revs with race ECU but I'm staying standard so should be reliable enough. Not short of revs anyway (as you know). Basically just needs sump baffle and breather mods and then it's a strieght swap.
Should be fun out of those hairpins next year!

adrian





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jeffw

posted on 25/11/10 at 06:49 PM Reply With Quote
Ohhh, looking forward to chasing that at Llandow next year Adrian






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adithorp

posted on 25/11/10 at 08:00 PM Reply With Quote
I'm sure you'll squeeze by Jeff... under yellow flags!





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ZEN

posted on 1/12/10 at 07:48 PM Reply With Quote
@Yazza54

Go on a diet and exercise to lose weight :p

[Edited on 1/12/10 by ZEN]





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MikeRJ

posted on 1/12/10 at 09:28 PM Reply With Quote
No matter how much more powerful you make the car, the power/weight ratio will always be degraded by the same fraction when you stick a passenger in. The only solution is to make your car heavier
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hobbsy

posted on 1/12/10 at 09:30 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
No matter how much more powerful you make the car, the power/weight ratio will always be degraded by the same fraction when you stick a passenger in. The only solution is to make your car heavier


Eh?

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