po79
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| posted on 18/1/11 at 03:44 PM |
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Pinto 165 engine questions
Hi all,
I have been offered a Pinto 165 block.
I believe this is a 1.6 engine but have been told it can be bored to 2.1 as the wall thickness is the same as the 205 block is this right?
I would have thought the block/stroke would have been shorter than a 2.0ltr?
All that to one side would using the cylinder head from this engine give me a better compression ratio if if fitted it to my 2.0ltr pinto engine and
if so what work would be involved?
Many thanks,
Po.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 18/1/11 at 03:53 PM |
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yeas a 165 is a 1.6
not sure exactly whats different about the bottom end, but the head will have smaller valves etc...
I'd have thought that it'd be alot cheaper to start with a 205 block.....
u2u me your e-mail and I'll send over some pinto info
[Edited on 18/1/2011 by mcerd1]
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nick205
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| posted on 18/1/11 at 04:22 PM |
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If you've been offered it for free then take it and strip off any useful spares and weigh the rest in for scrap then look for a 2 litre Pinto as
a start point - IMHO it really isn't worth starting with the 1.6.
ETA - if you want/need to raise the compression then get some material skimmed from the 2 litre block, noting piston clearances etc.
If you're going to build a Pinto engined car then the Veloce/Des Hammill bokk "How To Tune Ford's SOHC Pinto Engine" is an
excellent source of information with good photos and diagrams.
[Edited on 18/1/11 by nick205]
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jacko
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| posted on 18/1/11 at 04:26 PM |
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Look for a 205 block or even better a 200 block as used in cosworth cars
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po79
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 posted on 18/1/11 at 04:43 PM |
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Hello,
I already have a 205 block fitted to the car.
The reason I am thinking of this engine is I use my car everyday so taking the engine out to play with it will be a problem.
I've just finished the zx7r carb manifold and was going to take the head off to do some porting work (thanks to mcerd1 for the manual emailed)
over a weekend but think I'll be rushing it this way.
From what I can find out on the net this 165 block is an underbored 2.0 block (same as 205 block) using the same crank and stroke but just a smaller
bore.
165 being the same as the 1.6ltr emax block?
This 165 is a late engine with unleaded valve seats someone did say the valves in the late 1.6 are the as the 2.0ltr along with the cam?
So what I was thinking was to leave my 205 block alone so i can use the car everyday. Then get this 165 block and get it bored to 2.1, port the head
and get some lager valves fitted all at my own pace so I don't rush things (never any chance of that!!) 
And a massive bonus would be that it will still be a 1.6ltr engine block on the outside so I could be naughty and lower my insurance.
I just need to know if this info is right.
Po.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 18/1/11 at 04:45 PM |
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I believe the 1600 block is about an inch shorter in height than the 2 litre so I don't think you can turn it into a 2.1 - maybe a 1700 though
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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mcerd1
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| posted on 18/1/11 at 05:43 PM |
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if its the head you want to play with - then just get yourself another 2.0 head and port that / swap it over while you port the one you've got
just now
(had I sent you that manual already, my memorys not so good sometimes - I must be getting old...  )
that said if its a free 1.6 you'll get some useful spares from it
[Edited on 18/1/2011 by mcerd1]
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snapper
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| posted on 18/1/11 at 06:40 PM |
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The cost of boring a 1.6 to 2.1 would be 4 times as much as boring a 2.0 to 2.1
The 1.6 combustion chambers are 38cc compared with 48 for a 2.0
Your compression ratio with a 2.1 engine would be somewhere around 12 to 1.
If you are going to go 2.1 then start with a 2.0L
The 1.6 head may be sellable on Turbosports forum for people that build serious race motors.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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RAYLEE29
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| posted on 18/1/11 at 07:20 PM |
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Hi, the 165 block is about 3/8 shorter than a 2.0l block as its a different stroke so theres no practical way of turning it into a 2.0 or 2.1 so its
really of no use at all
Ray
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po79
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 11:43 AM |
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Thanks for the replies guys,
From what I can gather from people off this site the 165 engine block uses the 2.0ltr crankshaft, 2.0ltr conrods just using a smaller diameter piston
and bore to make it 1.6ltr.
Its the early 1.6 engine that had the shorter stoke/block height.
I did have a convisation last night with an old employer who is one of those fountain of knowledge type guys and what he said was quite intresting.
Basically he said that people have been reading the block numbers wrong of years and that their is no such block as the "205 block".
The block is just a "5 block" a new stronger design of the original Pinto blocks, the first two digits simply refer to the bore size
given to the engine.
so 165 should read 1.6ltr - 5block
185 should read 1.8ltr - 5 block
and 205 should read 2.0ltr - 5 block.
All other dimensions of the 5 series engine block are completley identical.
He also said the only reason people turn to the "205" is because they have become synonymous with Cosworth and the YB engine. I have to
agree that when ever I read about or hear people talking about the "205 block" its always refered to as "you know, the one Cosworth
used", and so the 2.0ltr - 5 block is considered completely seperate form the other 5 block engines when it is in fact the same.
But like my old boss said Cosworth needed a 2.0ltr engine to start with so they wasn't going to use the 1.6ltr 5 block as they would've
had to rebore the engine before they started. They selected that engine because it was the right size not because it was different to the other late
Pinto engines.
Des Hammill also writes;
"The genuine Cosworth block has thick walls (but no thicker than a late model 165, 185 or 205 Pinto block)".
Anyway I was just intrigued by what the guy who offered me the engine said really and as "205 blocks" seem to fetch a premium I though
this "165 block" could be an intresting option. I guess the "185 block" would be a cheaper way to go regarding rebore costs as
there would be less metal to remove. Plus I still like the idea of only paying an insurance premium for a 1.6ltr when it would be a 2.1ltr on the
inside.
To be honest I don't even know what appeals to me about 2.1ltrs and know head work is the real way to go for power and tuning it just has a nice
ring to it.
I guess the thing to do would be just to buy this engine and look at the block thickness when I get around to it. The 2.0ltr crank and late
(injection) conrods will make nice spares if nothing else.
I'm not saying anything I have writen above is correct just passing on info that I have been given.
Thanks,
Po.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 12:00 PM |
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sounds like you've got a decent grasp of whats inside these engines
as for reboring costs, they can only take so much out in a single cut and I found the price went up dramaticaly with every extra cut (something like
more than half again just to do one extra from memory) - I got my 205 rebored to 93mm (+2.25mm = 2090cc) for forged pistons and it was more the double
the cost of +0.5mm or similar
of course you'd need to ask whoever your getting to do it what they'd charge they might not be as bad as that....
quote:
Originally posted by po79
Anyway I was just intrigued by what the guy who offered me the engine said really and as "205 blocks" seem to fetch a premium I though
this "165 block" could be an intresting option. I guess the "185 block" would be a cheaper way to go regarding rebore costs as
there would be less metal to remove. Plus I still like the idea of only paying an insurance premium for a 1.6ltr when it would be a 2.1ltr on the
inside.
your on very doggy ground there, the insurance / DVLA would both want to know the new capacity of your engine - not telling them is basically fraud
one other thing to watch out for is some of the old blocks are marked '20 s' - which can be miss-read as '205' by some
folk.... (I've got a couple of these somewhere, I can get pics later to show you what I mean)
[Edited on 19/1/2011 by mcerd1]
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po79
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 12:23 PM |
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I know what you mean about the 20 and the 205 stamped engines some guy tried to sell me one a few years back he wanted £150 which I thought was a
little high at the time and a lot of parts (manifolds etc) had been stripped.
When I tried to knock him down on the price he got all funny with me and declared it was a "Cosworth block" pointing at the
'20' on the side of the engine, when I asked him what happened to the 5 or 0 on the end of the '20' I got asked to leave!!!
Theres some funny people out there I tell's you!
Po.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 01:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by po79
.....some guy tried to sell me one a few years back he wanted £150 which I thought was a little high at the time and a lot of parts (manifolds etc)
had been stripped....
that is quite alot 
its all about 5 years ago now but I've had 2 dead '20' block ones for free
and two complete efi granada's with '205' blocks (one even still running with a V5c) also for free although I insisted he took a
bottle of wiskey and a few beer tokens for them
I guess I was very lucky
(also it means I've still got a few spare bits left - if you need any odd's and ends just shout)
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DRC INDY 7
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| posted on 19/1/11 at 01:32 PM |
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165 185 and 205 all have the same stroke 76mm the early 16 block is shorter and had a shorter stroke 66mm but I would not bore out a 165 block the
Walls are no thicker than the 205 block
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