Dan.
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| posted on 18/2/11 at 08:34 PM |
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Sierra power steering internals into manual rack?
Hi All,
having sat in my unfinished project and given the steering wheel a spin in each direction I have decided the rack is way way too slow for my liking. I
believe the powersteering racks are much quicker, is it possible to use the internals from a power steering rack in my manual housing? I only ask as
this option would cost virtually nothing from a scrappy as aposed to £70+ delivery for a propper quick rack from rally design.
Anyway has anyone done this?
Thanks
Dan
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gavin174
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| posted on 18/2/11 at 08:41 PM |
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just fit the power rack and block off the pipes...
or loop them together..
http://www.essexkitcarclub.com
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britishtrident
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| posted on 18/2/11 at 08:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gavin174
just fit the power rack and block off the pipes...
or loop them together..
Not a good idea, power steering racks have built in lost motion to allow the hydraulic valve to work, also the internals are not designed to be used
continuously in the manual mode.
Apart from above the MOT regulations require if PAS is fitted if it is disabled it must be completely removed and the equivalent manual part
fitted.
Same logic is applied to brake servos and ABS
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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snapper
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| posted on 18/2/11 at 09:05 PM |
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It's a power assisted rack not a full power rack, the pinion and rack are in direct contact, leaving fluid in the system with no pump will be
the same as a pump failure.
Manufactures have to make racks fail safe.
This mod has been done many times with no issues.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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Dan.
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| posted on 18/2/11 at 09:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
It's a power assisted rack not a full power rack, the pinion and rack are in direct contact, leaving fluid in the system with no pump will be
the same as a pump failure.
Manufactures have to make racks fail safe.
This mod has been done many times with no issues.
Just what I wanted to hear thanks 
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britishtrident
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| posted on 18/2/11 at 09:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
It's a power assisted rack not a full power rack, the pinion and rack are in direct contact, leaving fluid in the system with no pump will be
the same as a pump failure.
Manufactures have to make racks fail safe.
This mod has been done many times with no issues.
Please check your facts.
Lost motion is required on any PAS for it to work this is why the steering racks on PAS cars are checked for lost motion with the engine
running.
If you don't believe this try checking for lost motion at the steering wheel on any car with hydraulic PAS with engine switched off then try it
again with the engine at idle.
Power rack with the hydraulics disabled is a specified MOT failure about 4 years ago VOSA sent out a notice to every MOT station
clarifying the matter.
PAS systems are fail safe but not designed for continuous use in the manual mode.
[Edited on 18/2/11 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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snapper
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| posted on 18/2/11 at 09:54 PM |
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OK, I am going theoretical hear....
Is there any play between rack and pinion?
If the pinion is in direct contact with the rack removing the hydraulics will cause no problems.
What bit of the power part of the rack causes the issue.
I assure you (all) aim keen to understand where the issue is.
Back to the original question, can you take the rack and pinion out of a power steering rack and use that in a standard one?
If yes the what is the difference in just removing the hydraulics?
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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loggyboy
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| posted on 18/2/11 at 10:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
OK, I am going theoretical hear....
Is there any play between rack and pinion?
If the pinion is in direct contact with the rack removing the hydraulics will cause no problems.
What bit of the power part of the rack causes the issue.
I assure you (all) aim keen to understand where the issue is.
Back to the original question, can you take the rack and pinion out of a power steering rack and use that in a standard one?
If yes the what is the difference in just removing the hydraulics?
It doesnt matter what logic you try to put to it, or what good points you make that justfy it - you WILL fail an MOT if you have a haydralic PAS rack
without the hydralic system fitted.
To go back to the OP question, why not buy an old PAS rack and an old standard rack and dismantle them, shouldnt cost much and might reveal something
you can share with everyone else. When I had my onld Nova I bought an EPAS rack (IE a manual rack that is 2.5 LtoL to fo with the electric column)
from a corsa B, and swapped the track arms to shorter Nova ones, and got a quick rack for the cost of the EPAS rack (£25 from scrapyard).
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drury318
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| posted on 19/2/11 at 01:58 AM |
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I think it`s probably much easier to just buy a new rack & be done with it? The points made about the MOT regs are perfectly valid, and they are
there for a reason, SAFETY!. I am a former MOT tester and I have seen every form of bodge and get out that you can imagine, as I suspect
BritishTrident has too?
I have built a 7 type car and I am all for saving money, believe me, but there are certain areas which are more suited to this than others.
When you take your car for an MOT in future years it will make your life a lot easier if you`ve done it properly rather than having to muck about
discussing whether this is ok or thats ok. The MOT tester has a lot of discretionary powers and his MAIN aim is to ensure any car he tests is safe,
the last thing he wants is the Ministry of Transport on his back questionong anything he has done, believe me!
Any mistakes he makes are his neck on the line, with a jail sentence a possibility.
I have seen just as many customers disputing whether their car should have passed an MOT as I have seen questionong whether it should have failed an
MOT, strange but absolutely true!
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phelpsa
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| posted on 19/2/11 at 08:38 AM |
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I've had a PAS rack fitted in my 205 without the PAS for about 3 years now. No issues whatsoever. It is common practice in many types of car
where quick racks are expensive / not available. Yes there is the tiniest bit of movement in it, but I challenge anyone to tell the difference between
one and a loosened up standard rack. Most MOT testers know that it is a safe modification and I have only heard of one or two cases where people have
been failed because of it. I will leave it at that.
Of cause a quaife quick rack would be much better!
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