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Author: Subject: 08 R1 should i worry?
jelly head

posted on 24/3/11 at 01:32 PM Reply With Quote
08 R1 should i worry?

I've just finished my 08 R1 engined BEC when i stumbled on this thread about blow ups and had a look at the other one on the DSR forum and its got my nipper going:

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=142828

I'm intending giving it some shoe on track days but i dont fancy the idea of having the engine self destructing on a regular basis.

Does anyone know how widespread the problem is with these engines going pop, have i just wasted my time and if it is down to the manifold design has anybody got the dimensions of a manifold that will prevent these issues?

Cheers

Rich

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TimC

posted on 24/3/11 at 01:46 PM Reply With Quote
I'd speak to Andy Bates. Last time I spoke to him, his understanding had moved-on and he believed that it had something to do with the EXUP valve and the need to leave it in place. He may know more now. He's on 01449 736633






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adithorp

posted on 24/3/11 at 01:46 PM Reply With Quote
First, don't panic. Second, speak to Andy Bates.

Have you modified the breathers and baffled the sump? Andy also has a theory to do with the EXUP motor, where people have just removed it and it needs either the solenoid to be left in or an electronic widget to con the ECU into thinking it's still there.

Damn, too slow!

[Edited on 24/3/11 by adithorp]





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nitram38

posted on 24/3/11 at 01:47 PM Reply With Quote
I do the baffle plates!
I also have suzuki gsxr 1300 ones

Theres not much difference between the 04 to 08 engines cos the baffle plate is the same except you have to mod one hole with a light file on the 08.
Haven't had any complaints and I supply them around the world

[Edited on 24/3/2011 by nitram38]






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mads

posted on 24/3/11 at 01:59 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
I do the baffle plates!
I also have suzuki gsxr 1300 ones

Theres not much difference between the 04 to 08 engines cos the baffle plate is the same except you have to mod one hole with a light file on the 08.
Haven't had any complaints and I supply them around the world

[Edited on 24/3/2011 by nitram38]


yep, even the delivery is quick!

i also have a 2008 R1 so will be watching this thread with interest. I plan to do the breather mods and have had the baffle plate from Martin.

[Edited on 24/3/11 by mads]





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A1

posted on 24/3/11 at 02:43 PM Reply With Quote
dont take this as red, but ive fairly put mine through the paces and its never missed a beat (or gear). Its pretty much stock.

shoulda read the thread before putting that mines older:/

[Edited on 24/3/11 by A1]

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jelly head

posted on 24/3/11 at 06:03 PM Reply With Quote
Wow speedy replies!! Good to know its not as bad as it first sounded.

I've got a baffle plate fitted but havent done anything with the breathers yet until it's been through the IVA (i'm thinking the AIS will help with the emissions), i'll re-plumb it once its tested to feed the gearbox breather back into the rocker cover.

I'd ditched the exup motor and replaced it with one of the diy circuit boards to fool the ECU so hopefully thats covered.

Best option it sounds is to ring Andy and get the full low down.

Thanks fellas.

Rich.

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mads

posted on 24/3/11 at 06:14 PM Reply With Quote
any chance you can put on here what he says on here, saves some of us others who have the same engine giving him separate calls?





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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip!"

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yorkshire-engines

posted on 24/3/11 at 07:59 PM Reply With Quote
Hy Yall the overheating probs with R1 motors is usually saved by fitting the exup motor iv sold at least 30 last year and 12 so far this year only had the 1 problem motor and that was running on 20% methanol
the exup bypass can be used as well with no problems definatly use a baffle in sumo and you can if you want to do the breather mod (most R1 motors breathe a bit)
you should have no probs with the motor

oh Mads your tank at mk has a new pump and ring now so can you send the other one back to me and ill see just what you have got

cheers Malc

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ko_racer

posted on 24/3/11 at 08:57 PM Reply With Quote
Hi Malc,

Would be interesting to hear what the reasoning is behind the exup motors causing the issues.

I think me and my team mate have probably suffered the majority of the issues with the 5VY engines having done well into double figures of top ends of engines between us. We've changed pretty much everything we can think of and more over the last couple of years.

Might have to give the exup motor a try. Can you let me know how much you want for an exup motor?

Looking at the part no's the 05-06 and 07/08 ones should be the same but the earlier ones are different. I've got a 5pw one, but I guess although the plug is the same they must be slightly different internally.

I know there's a little plugin box that can replace it but I've seen they have a few issues with the 04-06 model and have to remove a pin which I'm not keen on the sound of.

Thanks

Keith
keith@koracing.co.uk

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Andy B

posted on 25/3/11 at 11:32 PM Reply With Quote
Just seen this thread so will try and explain what we have learnt to date. This is based on track time with these engines and observations on similarities between installs that have gone pop and those that havent, it also draws on my experience with the later Hondas fitted with similar servo motors.
First of all the Hondas - these appear to run just fine without the servo until you put one on the dyno and hey presto a shed load of grunt has gone missing along with a load of advance. Reinstate the advance and the power comes back. This set me thinking that the servo was doing more than just opening an exhaust valve - more digging revealed the following -
Throttle is opened, ecu operates servo, servo reports position back to ecu, ecu adds appropriate advance - solution - plug in the servo and forget it.
Now moving on to the R1
a precedent seems to have been set in resistoring out the servo to eliminate fault codes and obtain full power, however it stands to reason that people would fit a resistor with a value corresponding to servo wide open, ie max advance to achieve full power.
Now we have have an ecu being fooled into thinking it has to apply the additional advance at all times even low down the rpm range where we know the R1 base map runs quite lean. The resulting high advance and lean mixture is my candidate for a meltdown upstairs. I believe that it is even more prevalent in those installs without power commander simply because the stock ecu will be running a leaner map, also exhaust effeciency varies from install to install making it all a bit of a lottery.
The simple answer is fit the servo and forget it, we have not had a failure on a single motor running power commander and servo.
I hope that all makes sense - and helps with future installs, if anyone need more info or any of the kit for the motors give me a bell on 01449 736633.
Regards to all
Andy

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jelly head

posted on 26/3/11 at 12:29 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks for that Andy, you explanation makes sense.

Iíve still got the original EXUP motor so Iíll look at fitting it back in and see what happens, sounds like a rolling road session wouldnt go amiss either.

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Yazza54

posted on 26/3/11 at 12:36 PM Reply With Quote
Does this just relate to later models or should my 03 r1 have this in place?





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progers

posted on 26/3/11 at 01:55 PM Reply With Quote
With the 02/03 model R1, the exup has absolutely no impact on what the ECU does as far as fuelling and ignition.

I believe what Andy is describing relates to the newer (04-> onwards) R1's

Regards

Paul

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Yazza54

posted on 26/3/11 at 02:34 PM Reply With Quote
Thankings!
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ko_racer

posted on 26/3/11 at 10:34 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks Andy. Makes interesting reading

I'll try to get hold of a servo for when I eventually get running and on the dyno & track.
Do you know if the exup eliminators work as well as having a servo connected?


Thanks

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adithorp

posted on 26/3/11 at 11:02 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ko_racer
Thanks Andy. Makes interesting reading

I'll try to get hold of a servo for when I eventually get running and on the dyno & track.
Do you know if the exup eliminators work as well as having a servo connected?


Thanks



I've been kicking mines arse for 10,000 miles with one of BobC's exup replacement boxes with no ill effects.





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hobbsy

posted on 29/3/11 at 11:43 AM Reply With Quote
My 03 R1 uses the bike clocks and had the EXUP valve on a bracket under the bonnet. However it's a fair old lump to have sat there doing nothing to I made one of BobC's EXUP removal circuits up. Not noticed any difference, if you don't anything connected and you use the bike clocks you get the engine check light on and on some models the "tacho tango" where it reads out a fault code to you using the tacho needle.
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Johneturbo

posted on 29/3/11 at 12:54 PM Reply With Quote
I ran the 5VY last year with bobs widget with no ill effect and did a couple of airfild days

If i wasn't running the standard bike clocks i probably wouldn't have used anything

are the ones blowing up on track using aftermarket clocks?

thankfuly the 14 doesn't use an exup valve

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franky

posted on 30/3/11 at 08:22 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
I ran the 5VY last year with bobs widget with no ill effect and did a couple of airfild days

If i wasn't running the standard bike clocks i probably wouldn't have used anything

are the ones blowing up on track using aftermarket clocks?

thankfuly the 14 doesn't use an exup valve


I'm pretty sure it has its own version, i may be wrong but most bikes now have something similar.

The 08r1's are the ones that make about 20bhp less than a blade/zx10 for the same year, the firing order is suppose to give more feel to the rider though. You can get 200+bhp out of them with a BSB budget.

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Johneturbo

posted on 30/3/11 at 08:35 AM Reply With Quote
I'd be interested to know if the 14 does use a kinda exup valve, with my engine i also got the manifold and link pipe with no butterflys in them.

i'm also using the standard clocks and i've run the engine up and got no fault codes

i thought the exup was to give thou superbikes better low down torque?

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adithorp

posted on 30/3/11 at 06:30 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by franky
The 08r1's are the ones that make about 20bhp less than a blade/zx10 for the same year, the firing order is suppose to give more feel to the rider though. You can get 200+bhp out of them with a BSB budget.


Isn't that the 2010 R1 with the cross plane crank that you're thinking of?





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franky

posted on 30/3/11 at 07:11 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
quote:
Originally posted by franky
The 08r1's are the ones that make about 20bhp less than a blade/zx10 for the same year, the firing order is suppose to give more feel to the rider though. You can get 200+bhp out of them with a BSB budget.


Isn't that the 2010 R1 with the cross plane crank that you're thinking of?


Yep sorry, they released details in 08, the bikes in 09/2010

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