gaz_gaz
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 06:28 PM |
|
|
best value for money Bike engine
Evening everyone.
i have a MNR with 5jj carbed r1 motor, only really use the car for trackdays and the occasional Sunday outing,
wouldnt mind having a go at some sprints in the future possibly,
anyway, as much fun as the car is i just can't get past the lack of power it has.
last week at Brands Hatch i was really struggling to pull a gap on a Clio 182 down the straight, i found myself catching up to most other cars on the
corners but kept getting creamed down the straights and it got abit dull.
So i'm thinkin about an engine swap, i want to stay bike engine as i like the gearbox and the high revs,
so i was wondering what bike engine provides the biggest bang for your buck?
i was thinking something along the lines of a zzr1400 maybe?
anyone care to offer some advice ?
thanks
|
|
|
|
|
Guinness
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 06:44 PM |
|
|
Stick a supercharger / turbo on the engine you've got?
Saves a lot of re-wiring / engine cradle alterations?
|
|
|
afj
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 06:59 PM |
|
|
The clios are quite fast on track lots of power and low weight. Turbo the r1 or swap to a busa or zzr1400 if i was building again i would go honda
s2000
eerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
|
|
|
gaz_gaz
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 07:30 PM |
|
|
is it possible to turbo/supercharge with carbs? that would definatly be an option,
|
|
|
Steve Hignett
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 07:32 PM |
|
|
It is better to turbocharge with carbs...
|
|
|
Steve Hignett
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 07:34 PM |
|
|
http://www.turbo-bike.net/
Have a read of this and then feel free to ask questions on here. (start a new thread if you go down this route)
You may end up with a few answers from people that just want to "take-part" but there are also a few people that know what they're
talking about...
[Edited on 16/6/11 by Steve Hignett]
|
|
|
tilly819
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 07:35 PM |
|
|
^^
i have to disagree its far easier to supercharge with carbs as you just fit larger jets, if u turbo you can either jet it for on boost in which case
it will idle very rich or jet it for off boost in which case it will run lean at the top
tilly
|
|
|
Steve Hignett
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 07:36 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by tilly819
^^
i have to disagree its far easier to supercharge with carbs as you just fit larger jets, if u turbo you can either jet it for on boost in which case
it will idle very rich or jet it for off boost in which case it will run lean at the top
tilly
You misunderstood... I wasn't saying that it was easier than S/C - I was saying that if you are going to turbo it, then it's easier with
carbs than injection!!!!
|
|
|
tilly819
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 07:40 PM |
|
|
ahh sorry i did indeed misunderstand you, though out of interest why do you say it is easier with carbs than injection, setting up a set of carbs for
turbo boost is a nightmare when with injection its just a case of a power commander and a new map admittedly more expensive but much easier IMO
tilly
F20C Haynes roadster 440 BHP/Tonne www.youtube.com/handmadeextreme
|
|
|
locoR1
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 07:40 PM |
|
|
As Steve says with carbs it quite easy to do, the link Steve has posted is where i got most of the info to do mine.
Turboed my 4xv about 3 years ago best thing i have ever done to the car apart from going bec in the first place 
it made 257bhp on the dyno running just under 12psi
 
Description
Check out my CB500T Cafe Racer build diary
|
|
|
tilly819
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 07:44 PM |
|
|
ah i see
very good link
tilly
F20C Haynes roadster 440 BHP/Tonne www.youtube.com/handmadeextreme
|
|
|
StevieB
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 07:51 PM |
|
|
What ratio diff are you running? That could make a big difference for a relatively low outlay.
Other things to consider would be a jet and needle set and a sausage filter if not already fitted (and a proper set up on a rolling road).
|
|
|
tomgregory2000
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 08:27 PM |
|
|
Turbo it, you know you want to
|
|
|
gaz_gaz
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 08:33 PM |
|
|
ah your the chap with the sr20 i was chatting to at Stonleleigh,
i'm tempted by the turbo option,
the diff is a 3.62 and the car has been dyno jetted, perhaps i am expecting too much from it?
|
|
|
tomgregory2000
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 09:05 PM |
|
|
Thats the one
I think you are expecting a little too much, what you need is a bit more torque to be able to push the brick shape of a 7 through the air.
With mine at 120mph you put your foot down and you just start going faster Not so much fun in the wet (gets a little scary)
Go on turbo it over the winter, that gives you the summer to get the bit for it together.
|
|
|
gaz_gaz
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 09:40 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by locoR1
As Steve says with carbs it quite easy to do, the link Steve has posted is where i got most of the info to do mine.
Turboed my 4xv about 3 years ago best thing i have ever done to the car apart from going bec in the first place
it made 257bhp on the dyno running just under 12psi
do you mind if i ask which turbo you used?
and did you buy a kit or just collect the parts yourself?
what was the torque figure on the dyno ?
|
|
|
gaz_gaz
|
| posted on 16/6/11 at 09:42 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett
http://www.turbo-bike.net/
Have a read of this and then feel free to ask questions on here. (start a new thread if you go down this route)
You may end up with a few answers from people that just want to "take-part" but there are also a few people that know what they're
talking about...
[Edited on 16/6/11 by Steve Hignett]
your a bad man showing me that link.
looks like turboing will be the easiest and cheapest option aswell as giving the most gains,
|
|
|
hiflow
|
| posted on 17/6/11 at 07:58 AM |
|
|
I was in same position as you, but i have a CBR900 N spec engine. In the end i went for ZZR1100 over some the the newer engines, purely because i
felt it was bomb proof. 2.8k for a low mileage Busa is way out of my budget, ZX12-r are great engines, but dont have the strongest of boxes, but
can be tuned very cheaply to 190bhp-200bhp. I was going to S/c the ZZr and as reliable as it is, even with forged internals i feel the box would
would not take the punishment. I was told by a bike engine builder, expect to strip and rebuild the bottom end every 3k , if you turbo it ! My
mates got a ZX14 in is locost and he loves it. he did say that on a track day a lad was running a locost with a R1 on a rotrex charger and after 3
FLYING laps, he had to come in & let the oil temp cool from 120oc !
at the very least your going to need Forged pistons+ rods + forged exhaust valves. My own preference would be aftermarket ECU , blowing through
Throttle bodies and it would be easier to setup and give better bhp over a carb setup.
Andy
|
|
|
gaz_gaz
|
| posted on 17/6/11 at 02:22 PM |
|
|
did he have proper cooling mods on that car with rotrex charger as thats just silly and abit pointless,
we had a little trouble with the S2000 turbo getting hot but a larger oil cooler sorted the oil temps out perfectly,
i wouldnt be running much boost so with slightly lower compression and keeping it nice and rich on the afrs should keep it all cool enough to not melt
pistons i'd think.
i think i'm going to have a bash at it, 4xv and 5jj engines are cheap as chips to replace anyway.
|
|
|
Nick DV
|
| posted on 17/6/11 at 02:45 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by gaz_gaz
ah your the chap with the sr20 i was chatting to at Stonleleigh,
i'm tempted by the turbo option,
the diff is a 3.62 and the car has been dyno jetted, perhaps i am expecting too much from it?
You need to change the diff to at least a 3:36 or if you can get one a 3:14
Cheers, Nick
"The force will be with you, always!"
|
|
|
gaz_gaz
|
| posted on 17/6/11 at 03:16 PM |
|
|
i'm probably wrong about this as i am with most things but that would give me a higher top speed and slower acceleration?
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 17/6/11 at 04:28 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by gaz_gaz
i'm probably wrong about this as i am with most things but that would give me a higher top speed and slower acceleration?
basically yes, but also fewer gear changes. I wouldnt personally suggest changing the diff unless you specifically want to.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
|
|
|
Nick DV
|
| posted on 17/6/11 at 04:36 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by gaz_gaz
i'm probably wrong about this as i am with most things but that would give me a higher top speed and slower acceleration?
In theory it would. In practice you won't notice that much on the acceleration where you use it, but you were saying you were running out of top
end and this will give yo more. Of course, add a turbo and diff and you get the best of everything!
Cheers, Nick
"The force will be with you, always!"
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 17/6/11 at 04:53 PM |
|
|
OP doesnt say if the problem on the straight was running out of revs at the end, or whether he simply didnt have enough acceleration/grunt between say
80 and 120mph.
If you were just to change the diff to suit the circuit, then you simply adjust it so that it approaches max revs on the fastest straight, which might
well require a 3.36. However, if the car isnt pulling well enough down the straight, the last thing he needs is a longer diff which would lower the
revs.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
|
|
|
gaz_gaz
|
| posted on 17/6/11 at 04:59 PM |
|
|
yep as Joel says.
i'm running out of straight before i run out of revs so would like abit more grunt for that reason,
maybe with more power i'll be running out of revs then i'll look at the diff but i'll need to wait and see.
[Edited on 17/6/11 by gaz_gaz]
|
|
|
