Agriv8
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 11:39 AM |
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So a little political debate - Re Protesters and ST Pauls
So a little political debate - Re Protesters and ST Pauls & Canon Chancellor Giles Fraser quitting
What’s the collective views on this I am northern boy so hate the big smoke , So the Chancellor hands his notice in on his principles that he agrees
with the protestors, but he has got ot go as the Church is loosing out money in the region of £20k a day .
So what gets me is the fact that the church is attacking this on a 'We are loosing money here' not supporting a 'Peaceful
Protest' regarding the banking sector causing/being a part of causing a large amount of financial hardship.
So up for discussion - the Church of England should be fighting this on a moral ground or has Church of England 'PLC' ( which is a large
player on the stock market ' ) got more alegancis with the bankers than its parishioners who are contributing every week.
Ps I am not pro Church of England just opening this up to the LCB discussion forum for a light hearted debate
regards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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tegwin
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 11:48 AM |
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My opinion on the church.... its a business...always has been... Uses peoples fickle beliefes to make huge proffits.... Anyone standing in the way of
their money will suffer.... has allways been the case
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Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
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MikeFellows
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 11:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
My opinion on the church.... its a business...always has been... Uses peoples fickle beliefes to make huge proffits.... Anyone standing in the way of
their money will suffer.... has allways been the case
+1
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owelly
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 12:00 PM |
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Perfect example of the Church Business debate is St. Hildas Priory on the outskirts of Whitby. They've already sold off what used to be the
playing fields they owned to a housing developement company who have built 200 houses on it and now, to fund a new 'Priory', they've
sold one of their farms to Tescos who wanted to build a Superstore, filling station and, just to help with the planning application, 150 houses. The
same week this went public, the Sisters of the Holy Paraclete, who run the priory, wrote to the local press expressing how important it was to support
local farmers. Like the family of farmers who had farmed their land for three generations, who had just found out through the media, that they were to
become homeless and jobless! As it happens, Tescos didn't get the planning permission and sold the land on to a property developer who wants to
build another 200 houses.....even though Whitby has plenty of empty newly build houses that no-one can afford to buy!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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britishtrident
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 12:01 PM |
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As an "devout :-)" atheist of Scottish Presbyterian roots the Church of England ability to be on both sides of any fence never
ceases to amaze me.
Much as I would like to lock up for life Fred Goodwin and co the protesters aren't bunch I have any sympathy time for, especially as it
most of them go home at night.
I don't think this has reached the main BBC News channels http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15462443
This morning Strathclyde Police warned the down & outs & street people were moving into the camp.
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scootz
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 12:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeFellows
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
My opinion on the church.... its a business...always has been... Uses peoples fickle beliefes to make huge proffits.... Anyone standing in the way of
their money will suffer.... has allways been the case
+1
+2
It's Evolution Baby!
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blakep82
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 12:15 PM |
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wonder what the world would be like without capitalism? i don't think it would be a very nice place to be...
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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scootz
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 12:18 PM |
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Maybe not for humans, but I'll bet the planet itself and it's wildlife would be more than happy!
It's Evolution Baby!
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Agriv8
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 12:22 PM |
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so Is devisions within "Cof E of PLC" that Rowan what ever he is called can critises the banks but soon as people rally to his call and
protest about it they are not allowed to impact on the Churches income did a quick search at dinner time in 2009 Cof E PLC had assets of 4.4 bn (
assume this this is just stockmarket but may be wrong).
Just cant see hoe they can be Oposite sided of the same fence ( or pulpit )
regards
agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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Agriv8
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 12:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Maybe not for humans, but I'll bet the planet itself and it's wildlife would be more than happy!
capitalism when kept in check is good bit the magority must be able to aford to live ( i dont mean shopping ) i am talking a roof over there head.
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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blakep82
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 12:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Agriv8
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Maybe not for humans, but I'll bet the planet itself and it's wildlife would be more than happy!
capitalism when kept in check is good bit the magority must be able to aford to live ( i dont mean shopping ) i am talking a roof over there head.
depends how you define 'in check', everyone's idea is going to be different.
the only think i used to enjoy about working for the royal *ank of scotland (fill in your own letter for that, i choose W) was when people complained
they had to pay interest on their mortgages. the ones that complained were always the ones that couldn't keep up with payments, missing direct
debits etc. I liked reminding them, RBS is a business, not a charity...
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Badger_McLetcher
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 12:49 PM |
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As with any idealism, if it is taken to the extreme it becomes a problem. Capitalism itself isn't too bad, but needs to be tempered by other
considerations. I wouldn't want to live life in any extremist state, including extremist capitalism.
Back to the orginal question, I think that the church SHOULD back the protesters, but I'm pretty sure they will act as CoE PLC on this.
If disfunction is a function, then I must be some kind of genius.
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UncleFista
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 01:10 PM |
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I'm an aetheist, but St Pauls receives no cash from the church, it's self-sustaining.
To me, it's a tourist destination which brings in foreign cash and doesn't cost us anything.
A rarity which should be protected, not closed.
Why are the protesters picketing a church rather than a financial establishment ?
Tony Bond / UncleFista
Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...
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Agriv8
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 01:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
quote:
Originally posted by Agriv8
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Maybe not for humans, but I'll bet the planet itself and it's wildlife would be more than happy!
capitalism when kept in check is good bit the magority must be able to aford to live ( i dont mean shopping ) i am talking a roof over there head.
depends how you define 'in check', everyone's idea is going to be different.
the only think i used to enjoy about working for the royal *ank of scotland (fill in your own letter for that, i choose W) was when people complained
they had to pay interest on their mortgages. the ones that complained were always the ones that couldn't keep up with payments, missing direct
debits etc. I liked reminding them, RBS is a business, not a charity...
Yes and capitalism is very hard to control but
re ... keep up with payments .. the banks are the ones that decided to agree to give these people money to buy houses but I the blame is 50 % bank
and 50 % punter its was the banks greed to make money at the expense of eveything else .
The Banks were / are one of the bigest short sellers that contibuted to this problem
The banks and their personal are back making mega bucks while wer eare left with there toxic Debt
 us in the street
regards Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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Agriv8
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 01:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by UncleFista
I'm an aetheist, but St Pauls receives no cash from the church, it's self-sustaining.
To me, it's a tourist destination which brings in foreign cash and doesn't cost us anything.
A rarity which should be protected, not closed.
Why are the protesters picketing a church rather than a financial establishment ?
Are didnt know that, that changes it a bit!
but asume they are on Church property So the Church have to start the evication - 'We dont want them there ' where as if they were on the
street boris whould have had them swept away to keep his city buddies happy
regards
Agriv8
[Edited on 27/10/11 by Agriv8]
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 01:31 PM |
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Someone pointed a heat-detecting camera at the tents the other night - a very large majority of them were empty! Most of the protesters had gone home
for the night...
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adithorp
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 01:37 PM |
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As I understand it...
The protesters wanted to camp outside the Stock Exchange but couldn't legally do that. They were then offered space to set up outside StPauls
(some of which is common land). The fire service and HSE raised concerns about the camp blocking exits and risk from waste. The protesters asked for
advice and acted to clear exits and address waste disposal to the satisfaction of fire service and HSE. Then the church closed stating the HSE and
fire reasons and now want them gone because of loss of income...
...Which all sounds a bit fishy given the church's huge investments in the Stock Exchange.
Having said all that, I'm yet to hear a sensibly constructed explanation of what the protesters hope to achieve. Protesting about capitalism is
like protesting about the rain. If they dislike capitalism and globalisation, why are the local Starbucks doing such a roaring trade?
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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angliamotorsport
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 03:04 PM |
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If the majority of these people protesting are there during the day, are they working nights to earn a living or what.
Personally I'd get a digger in and scoop up the lot of them and take them to the local tip.
That's probably upset a lot of you, am I bothered........
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britishtrident
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 03:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by angliamotorsport
If the majority of these people protesting are there during the day, are they working nights to earn a living or what.
Personally I'd get a digger in and scoop up the lot of them and take them to the local tip.
That's probably upset a lot of you, am I bothered........
Sorry that won't wash, they seem to devided into five groups, anarchists living on benefits who will protest at anything, lonely granny
pensioner nutters looking for a cause to fill their time and happy clappy christian do gooders and the bored daughters of sloans who have never
worked in their lives.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Agriv8
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 04:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by angliamotorsport
If the majority of these people protesting are there during the day, are they working nights to earn a living or what.
Personally I'd get a digger in and scoop up the lot of them and take them to the local tip.
That's probably upset a lot of you, am I bothered........
Sorry that won't wash, they seem to devided into five groups, anarchists living on benefits who will protest at anything, lonely granny
pensioner nutters looking for a cause to fill their time and happy clappy christian do gooders and the bored daughters of sloans who have never
worked in their lives.
I suspect thats the demographic spot on but part of me says good on them for taking a stance it aint goint to do any good.
I reall yam suprised that a loophole has not been found to make the problem go away David Cameron is not going to like it.
REgards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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morcus
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 05:29 PM |
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I really don't understand what these protestors are trying to achieve beyond the crazy notion of bringing down capitalism which isn't
really possible in a free society. And as above I'd noticed that the people protesting do match the above groups above and are in essense people
striking who haven't got jobs to begin with. Have any of them put forward any ideas of how to remove capitalism?
Some very harsh views on the Church here. What you believe in is your own business but the church needs money to survive. There is Hipocracy in the
church and sometimes they do things which seem to against the general message but that will happen in any large organisation but the bottom line is
the church employs a very large number of people and owns and maintains a huge number of buildings that people would complain about loosing (Even
though they'd done nothing to prevent the loss and might have even expediated).
They should just arrest them all.
In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 07:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by UncleFista
I'm an aetheist, but St Pauls receives no cash from the church, it's self-sustaining.
To me, it's a tourist destination which brings in foreign cash and doesn't cost us anything.
A rarity which should be protected, not closed.
Why are the protesters picketing a church rather than a financial establishment ?
100% agree with you on this St Pauls is something special it is a symbol of London's resurrection after the Great Fire and this countries
stand alone against Nazi evil in 1940, it is a rare thing something England (and the United Kingdom)) can be proud of. When London was burning on the
worst night of the Biltz Churchill gave one order to the fire service - don't let St Pauls burn
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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T66
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 07:53 PM |
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The eco protestors will soon become rentamob, Clown Army, Cycling protestors (Critical mass) whenever the call goes up ...
and to the right reverend/canon who ever he was who sent the Police packing when this all started - Simply a tosser.
http://www.clownarmy.org/
http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk/
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/
Have a browse, see what your taxes are paying for.
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