hubby
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 09:52 AM |
|
|
twin or single injectors with bike T/B
general question for people running bike tb are you using single injectors that come with the bike tb or just injectors in the manifold or both as i
have been reading that with both its better for low and high engine speeds for power/torque the car is just for road use but may one day go on a track
day. is it worth the expence of have a manifold made up to except both or should i just make my own and use the bike T/B. Its going on a VAUXHALL
C20XE standard apart from a free flowing exhaust running on a omex 600. what power should i expect to see as some say 175/180bhp and yet others claim
about 200bhp both these figures are after rolling road session
|
|
|
|
|
mrwibble
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 10:07 AM |
|
|
be interested if anyones got a dual injector setup, I would guess for the extra complications it will be rare... more suited to competition use? but
someone will be along to tell me i'm full of sh*t.
injectors in the TBs being further from the inlet ports will give better fuel atomisation and power, standard position will give better economy as i
understand it.
[Edited on 5/11/11 by mrwibble]
|
|
|
mark chandler
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 10:47 AM |
|
|
Its the flow rates that count, look at the BHP the bike produced on TB's, if its the same as your engine than go with the TB's
injectors.
So if you put say GXR600 TB's on your engine these will not flow enough, however GXR1000's should be okay as an example.
Regards Mark
|
|
|
MakeEverything
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 10:56 AM |
|
|
The bike injectors have a different spray pattern and atomisation, but wont have anywhere near the same flow rate as car ones.
ASNU injectors are designed for cars and have the same spray pattern and atomisation properties as the bike ones. They come in flow rates up to
1000cc/min as standard.
You can set up Megasquirt for staged injection, in case youve got it controlling nitrous or a different map. the first map could be set up for MOT
and economy, and the second for performance which switches in at 2500rpm. This would utilise the second set of injectors.
[Edited on 5-11-11 by MakeEverything]
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
|
|
|
will121
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 11:05 AM |
|
|
i have a zetec running twin injectors running staged injection, think inner injectors go up to 3500rpm then switch to outer ones. as Emerald has 3
switchable maps Initial plan was to run it and test it with all the options to see what difference it made just inners, just outers then both staged
but the extra cost of mapping i never got round to it so cant confirm benefits.
Personally as most run just a single injector with good results dont know if its really worth the extra work of wiring, fuel rails etc.
Also other things to considder is extra space required and getting a base map to run single injection should be easy but bet a stage injector one wont
be so more time and expence for RR mapping.
|
|
|
MikeRJ
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 11:11 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
The bike injectors have a different spray pattern and atomisation, but wont have anywhere near the same flow rate as car ones.
What makes you say that? The required flow rate is determined by the amount of power you need to make, modern 1 liter superbikes are now pushing on
for 200bhp. Even the older GSXR1000 had 250cc injectors, the original 20XE injectors (cream coloured) were only 214cc.
|
|
|
HowardB
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 12:15 PM |
|
|
I have left the TB injectors in my system, they are from a Busa, so I guess might have sufficient flow, but I had in mind running both sets when I get
sorted, as said above, manifold set to say 4,000, and then adding in the TB set at that point,....
Not sure how the best way to do it is, but not nearly ready enough to worry about.
When the time comes I will post all my newbie questions here,...!
thanks
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again  and goes zoom)
|
|
|
hubby
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 01:29 PM |
|
|
the T/B are from a 2010 yamaha R1 which is suppose to have a fraction under 180bhp at the crank, i can see now that its the rolling road that that is
going to bite me in the *rse if i go for the twin in injectors. space is not a problem nor is mot as its only a visual its pre iva/sva (1995). i
suppose i could always have it like as above with only the bike ones set up untill i win the lottery. Will121 did bogg brothers make your manifold?
[Edited on 5/11/11 by hubby]
|
|
|
Ben_Copeland
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 01:38 PM |
|
|
Personally i wouldnt bother having 2 sets of injectors unless your running the power needed for 2 sets.
Extra money, extra weight, extra complications. 180bhp get some GM saab injectors or vx turbo LET ones. The original are sufficient for that power.
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
|
|
|
hubby
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 01:57 PM |
|
|
the ones i have for the xe are biege but what colour are the ones you mean blue or green?
|
|
|
Ben_Copeland
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 02:04 PM |
|
|
You can keep the Biege ones, but the turbo (c20let) are Yellow
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
|
|
|
Ben_Copeland
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 02:05 PM |
|
|
Cream/Biege were fitted to the dizzy engines and ran at 2.5 bar
Blues were fitted to the dizzyless engines and ran at 3.0 bar
Blues had a better spray pattern to the creams to help improve combustion and reduce emissions.
Yellows would have been of a c20let.
[Edited on 5/11/11 by Ben_Copeland]
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
|
|
|
matt_gsxr
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 02:39 PM |
|
|
My experiences are of EFI on a bike engine that was originally carbs.
Is you do install secondary injection with megasquirt, then it is very easy, although really you need MS2 to do it properly (MS1 isn't good at
managing the transition). At least the early versions of the code expected the inner injectors to have lower flow rate than the outer ones, just
something to look out for.
Personally, it wasn't difficult to configure electrically. In my case I used cbr1000rr outer injectors which are easy to configure for
secondary injection (as they are used in this way in their original installation).
I don't know whether it made more power with secondary injection, but the books I have read on this suggest it should be worth 3-5% bhp
increase.
Regarding flow rates of bike and car injectors. Owing to the higher RPM of bike engines there is more wasted time (opening and closing) for a bike
injector and so for the same bhp a bike injector would need to be larger than a car injector. In practice injectors from these big bikes flow well.
Incidentally, when I researched this a while back the early gsxr600, gsxr1000 and gsxr1300 injectors from the years where the suzuki TB's are
separable (K1,2,3) were all the same part number (although there may be some exceptions).
|
|
|
HowardB
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 03:18 PM |
|
|
that is very interesting Matt, I only plan to add the second injectors as an educational exercise, but would be very interested in your advice when
the time comes,.... thanks
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
|
|
|
will121
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 03:32 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by hubby
Will121 did bogg brothers make your manifold?
no its just a DIY one bit more info in link below, as i respaced my throttle bodies its quiet simple as no compound curves it the tubes and the
manifold blanks are readily available
making a manifold link
|
|
|
will121
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 03:33 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by hubby
Will121 did bogg brothers make your manifold?
no its just a DIY one bit more info in link below, as i respaced my throttle bodies its quiet simple as no compound curves it the tubes and the
manifold blanks are readily available
making a manifold link
|
|
|
hughpinder
|
| posted on 7/11/11 at 09:36 AM |
|
|
I got a set of Honda 1100 blackbird throttle bodies. The injectors flowed 270cc/min at 2.7 bar that I tested them at. I have been told the same
injectors are used in the S2000 car engine (but with 3.5bar fuel pressure I believe), where they are listed as 335cc/min 240bhp standard, and they are
ok for tuning up to 280bhp.
Regards
Hugh
|
|
|
