nick205
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| posted on 23/4/12 at 08:00 PM |
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Screwfix poxy crimp tool alert
A word of warning to anyone looking for a ratchet type crimp tool - DON'T buy this piece of cr8p from Screwfix....
http://www.screwfix.com/p/r
atchet-crimping-tool-1-5-10mm/49092?cm_sp=Search-_-SearchRec-_-Area3&_requestid=631623
...it's appallingly bad. It simply mashes the crimp breaking the plastic sheath and failing to grip the wire.
While we're at it their crimps are a pile of poo as well, really badly made and the plastic sheath is so hard there's no way it will ever
crimp properly....
http://www.screwfix.com/p/crimp-ebb-insulated-blue-butt-pack-of-100/714
80
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JoelP
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| posted on 23/4/12 at 08:07 PM |
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Have you tried it with decent crimps? It looks identical to mine, which works fine on proper crimps.
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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nick205
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| posted on 23/4/12 at 08:16 PM |
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I took the whole lot back and got a refund. I made do with my old plier type crimp tool and some terminals from Halfords.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 23/4/12 at 08:24 PM |
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That tool is designed for uninsulated crimps (which Screwfix sell), so it's not surprising that it doesn't work well with insulated
ones.
The insulated ones are typically marked with the appropriate colour for the crimp size and have separate sections of the die for the actual crimp and
to form the plastic sleeve around the cable insulation for strain relief. Like this:
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owelly
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| posted on 23/4/12 at 09:25 PM |
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What he said^^^^^^
You needed these:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/forge-steel-ratchet-crimping-tool/70036?cm_sp=Search-_-SearchRec-_-Area1&_requestid=709601
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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AntonUK
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| posted on 23/4/12 at 09:28 PM |
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What are the general view of the red/blue/yellow insulated crimps as IMO they are the a pile of crap.. and are currently banned from my car...
Build Photos Here
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owelly
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| posted on 23/4/12 at 09:34 PM |
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I would say it depends on the quality. I had some from the local 'Poundland' and the plastic was very brittle so crumbled and the metal
grippy bit was very short and the entire assemby was very thin and feeble. But that's no more than I was expecting from cheap gear. I use the
ones that have a metal inner to the sheath grip (!!!) and these are more expensive, but always work. I always use a good quality crimping tool.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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NigeEss
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| posted on 23/4/12 at 09:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by AntonUK
What are the general view of the red/blue/yellow insulated crimps as IMO they are the a pile of crap.. and are currently banned from my car...
Sh1te. I always use non insulated ones and slip a proper cover on so they end up like factory one on cars.
If the coloured ones were any good surely Ford and the like would use them.
[Edited on 23/4/12 by NigeEss]
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.................Douglas Adams.
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daviep
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| posted on 23/4/12 at 09:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by AntonUK
What are the general view of the red/blue/yellow insulated crimps as IMO they are the a pile of crap.. and are currently banned from my car...
If you use a decent set of ratchet crimpers they make a strong reliable connection, they are simple and quick to make up and crimps and pliers are
cheap but they are quite bulky and don't look tidy when there are a lot used together.
There are a lot of better alternatives for most situations but the tooling tends to be more expensive, the connectors and pins tend to have a few
parts per connection so higher cost and must be assembled correctly which sometimes isn't as simple when you don't use them regularly.
Superseal connectors and similar give a neater and possibly more reliable connection.
Just my opinon
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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iank
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| posted on 23/4/12 at 10:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by AntonUK
What are the general view of the red/blue/yellow insulated crimps as IMO they are the a pile of crap.. and are currently banned from my car...
Uninsulated for me, with a proper boot fitted with a proper tool (not a poundland punched steel one).
The coloured ones are in the same category as self-tappers for me as I've had bad experiences with them (though I'm sure as Owelly says
you can get good ones if you look hard).
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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SeaBass
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| posted on 24/4/12 at 08:12 AM |
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I know I'll be flamed but I like to use uninsulated crimps over tinned wire ends that I then crimp and heat with my little gas iron to solder
the joints. I then use either a slip cover or some decent heat shrink. I've used this method for all the wiring I've done and never had a
"brittle failure". I'm kind of obsessive about securing wiring though to stop it flapping about.
I never trust wires that have been crimped with the coloured connectors especially larger current +Ves
JC
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owelly
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| posted on 24/4/12 at 08:33 AM |
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Ah, yes. The old 'never solder' debate. If you're wiring an aeroplane that provides high frequency vibrations for thousands of
hours, don't solder ends on the cable. The solder 'wicks' up the cable with the aid of capilliary action, and turns your once
pliable cable into a solid one, which can work harden and snap. IMHO, there's nothing wrong with a touch of solder to confirm the joint. None of
my cars, or the powerstation where I work, have ever crash-landed due to failed wiring looms.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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SeaBass
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| posted on 24/4/12 at 09:24 AM |
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Very well put owelly!
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nick205
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| posted on 24/4/12 at 12:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
That tool is designed for uninsulated crimps (which Screwfix sell), so it's not surprising that it doesn't work well with insulated
ones.
The insulated ones are typically marked with the appropriate colour for the crimp size and have separate sections of the die for the actual crimp and
to form the plastic sleeve around the cable insulation for strain relief. Like this:
It may well be, but the Screwfix catalogue recommends it for use with their insulated terminals. As per the above link to their crimp terminals it is
also recommended by order code for use with the terminals.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 24/4/12 at 01:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
It may well be, but the Screwfix catalogue recommends it for use with their insulated terminals. As per the above link to their crimp terminals it is
also recommended by order code for use with the terminals.
No it does not, the web site simply shows "recommended products" underneath but it certainly doesn't say they are recommend for use
with that crimping tool. It just like the "Other customers bought these at the same time" links on Amazon showing related but not
necessarily compatible products.
As for insulated crimps being rubbish, I suggest no-one ever uses a train again as the signalling relay racks we constructed at the place I used to
work are full of them. Every crimp tool was regularly calibrated, and a test crimp would be made at regular intervals subjected to a pull test to
ensure the crimp was made correctly. Properly done they are extremely reliable. FWIW no wires were ever soldered to terminals in these
installations, they were always crimped.
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SeaBass
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| posted on 24/4/12 at 01:36 PM |
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I think you've proved my point Mike...
I don't have a calibrated crimper or suitable test equipment therefore resort to the luddite soldering iron.
JC
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Cornishman
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| posted on 24/4/12 at 05:28 PM |
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Mike RJ
Interesting what you say....
I used to work for a short while at a place that made railway signalling equipment, in Plymouth.
Wouldn't be the same place would it?
And yes we had to do "first offs" of test crimps (insulated type as you say) before wiring the rest of the enclosure..
I knew of a Mike R J who started his apprenticeship there in the early 90's was that you?
Steve Martin.
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 24/4/12 at 05:47 PM |
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im with owelly on this one .....
but i do use heashrink insulated termials at work , on the fuseboard area we can use just the insulated terminals , and have both sets of pliers to do
the job , we also use deutch connectors , duraseal and DIN type plugs in all our looms ...
most pins in the fancy plugs are uninsulated since the plug does the insulation work ......
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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iank
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| posted on 24/4/12 at 06:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SeaBass
I think you've proved my point Mike...
I don't have a calibrated crimper or suitable test equipment therefore resort to the luddite soldering iron.
JC
You don't need to use a calibrated crimper and do pull tests unless you are putting in place the paperwork to avoid multiple million pound
liability claims and lots of bad press in the tabloids when there's a train wreck/plane crash/nuclear meltdown.
A good quality ratchet crimper and crimps will produce thousands of good quality, more reliable, joints. Soldering is just a waste of time and
effort, and will reduce the reliability in the longer term.
The reason people think soldering is better is they use, or talk to someone who uses a crimper like this one eBay Item and bags of
crimps that cost £1.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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AdrianH
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| posted on 24/4/12 at 08:04 PM |
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We use a lot of insulated crimps at work replacing soldering, especially when working in vehicles for after market installs. Working with soldering
irons around carpets and plastic trim is crazy now.
There is a simple pull test we do at work to check crimps and is based on the following picture or something very similar.
 
Pull test
search for crimps pull test in google.
We will crimp up a particular SWG wire with the correct size crimps putting a ring on each end. Suspend one ring from a fastener in the wall and
suspend the minimum weight on the other, you could also use a scale such as luggage scale etc. and pull on the items yourself to either pass the
minimum pull force or see what point they break away.
So sending them away for calibration is not always required if you do simple tests and keep records.
And do not buy cheap crimps if the plastic insulation starts to break away bin the lot and buy better.
Molex crimps are good.
Adrian
[Edited on 24-4-12 by AdrianH]
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
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nick205
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| posted on 24/4/12 at 09:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
It may well be, but the Screwfix catalogue recommends it for use with their insulated terminals. As per the above link to their crimp terminals it is
also recommended by order code for use with the terminals.
No it does not, the web site simply shows "recommended products" underneath but it certainly doesn't say they are recommend for use
with that crimping tool. It just like the "Other customers bought these at the same time" links on Amazon showing related but not
necessarily compatible products.
As for insulated crimps being rubbish, I suggest no-one ever uses a train again as the signalling relay racks we constructed at the place I used to
work are full of them. Every crimp tool was regularly calibrated, and a test crimp would be made at regular intervals subjected to a pull test to
ensure the crimp was made correctly. Properly done they are extremely reliable. FWIW no wires were ever soldered to terminals in these
installations, they were always crimped.
Not wanting to split hairs, but the info on the crimp terminals specifically states "use with ratchet crimping tool 49092"
Crimp Ebb Insulated Blue Butt Pack of 100Product Code: 71480
View reviews (5)
High quality, pre-insulated copper crimp terminals. EN 60352-2, 1:2003. Use with Ratchet Crimping Tool (Code 49092). Product contents:
100 x crimp terminals.Specifications:
Cable size: 1.5-2.5mm². Imax: 27A.
Regards crimp terminals I never aid they were bad. As you comment, good quality terminals properly crimped are exceptionally reliable. We use them
in large numbers in the majority of the electrical (PSUs) and electronic (19" rack) equipment designed and manufactured by my company. We
don't calibrate our crimp tools, but we do test periodically for QA purposes.
[Edited on 24/4/12 by nick205]
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AdrianH
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| posted on 24/4/12 at 09:23 PM |
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I would say that Screw fix have it wrong you should be pointed to this product.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/forge-steel-ratchet-crimping-tool/70036
It says it is for insulated crimps red, blue and yellow. Although still wrong as it later says non insulated terminals.
Adrian
[Edited on 24-4-12 by AdrianH]
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
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nick205
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| posted on 24/4/12 at 09:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by AdrianH
I would say that Screw fix have it wrong you should be pointed to this product.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/forge-steel-ratchet-crimping-tool/70036
It says it is for insulated crimps red, blue and yellow. Although still wrong as it later says non insulated terminals.
Adrian
[Edited on 24-4-12 by AdrianH]
I'd agree, although I didn't see that tool in the paper catalogue, only online.
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