gunman
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| posted on 6/6/12 at 08:56 PM |
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MOT emissions woes
My Tiger Cat E1 is booked for MOT this Saturday, it has been MOT'd before but not in my ownership (bought last year with full MOT). Car is
fitted with a 2.1 pinto and twin 40 webers. I left it down to a local guy today who does a lot of work on old minis and escorts etc to set the carbs
as I rebuilt them over the winter. He had an awful job getting the emissions anywhere near passing. at best he can get the hydracarbons to 1100 but
sometimes peeking at over 1200.
Car is fitted with an unknown (but suspected comp cams) camshaft with a high lift (near 13mm valve lift), he reckons this is why. He had upgraded the
idle valve from a 55 to a 60 and it is running better. When he set the carbs out the way he said "he'd like them", hydracarbons
were over 2000. I had advanced the tming to 14 BTDC but he had to retard it back to 8 to get the emmisions down at all.
CO2 is down under 3 now and the car is running a lot better than it was.
Question is, will this pass and is there anyting I can do to try and tip the scales? It's not on a Q plate, it's on an F reg but built in
2001. Other question is, should I be worried even if it does pass? If I tune it the way this guys reckons it should be set will I be killing off
polar bears every time I start her up .
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zetec
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| posted on 6/6/12 at 09:16 PM |
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Thought you would be "visable smoke only" My 2003 reg "1989" donor zetec is.
" I only registered to look at the pictures, now I'm stuck with this username for the rest of my life!"
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gunman
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| posted on 6/6/12 at 09:19 PM |
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I'm not 100% sure,a mate in bike engined westfield got emissions tested. I am in Northern Ireland so the MOT isn't done at a garage,
it's done at DVTA test centres so there isn't a lot of leeway usually.
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bigbravedave
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| posted on 6/6/12 at 10:16 PM |
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fortunately my car had to pass emissions for SVA but I know of plenty of peoples that don't due to the state of tune etc.
before loosing sleep over it I would suggest knocking on some MOT test station doors, saying "my kit-cars due an mot but Im worried about its
emmisions"
See what the response is.....
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mad4x4
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 06:02 AM |
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I having similar problems, MOT in March - = Fail due to Emmission - Still playing with the bloody thing YET 
Mine is megasquirt
Looks like my freindly mechanic is going to lend me his "spare" Emissions Test Station for the weekend which just happens to be MOT
Calibrated.
[Edited on 7/606/12 by mad4x4]
Scot's do it better in Kilts.
MK INDY's Don't Self Centre Regardless of MK Setting !
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ianjenn
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 07:42 AM |
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check your V5. This should state the CO2 that needs to be achieved at MOT. I suspect on an F reg that it will be a visual inspection only. Take your
V5 and show the MOT tester
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gunman
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 09:33 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbravedave
fortunately my car had to pass emissions for SVA but I know of plenty of peoples that don't due to the state of tune etc.
before loosing sleep over it I would suggest knocking on some MOT test station doors, saying "my kit-cars due an mot but Im worried about its
emmisions"
See what the response is.....
That's my problem, there are no mot testers doors. I am in n Ireland. We have government run test centers. It's not a case of finding a
friendly tester, everyone has to go to the same place. I don't want to phone them up and ask as it may draw attention to it. That and is get
speaking to a civil servant who wouldn't know anything anyway.
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JeffHs
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 09:35 AM |
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Where are you? I was really worried about mine when I first fitted the 40s. My tester near Derby,who I've known for years reassured me that he
passes things far worse than mine (1600 Pinto on 40s). He always does an emission test (and it passes) but because I'm on visible smoke only, he
doesn't care what it reads.
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gunman
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 09:36 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ianjenn
check your V5. This should state the CO2 that needs to be achieved at MOT. I suspect on an F reg that it will be a visual inspection only. Take your
V5 and show the MOT tester
I thought if it isn't listed it goes by the standard 3.5 and 1200?
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gunman
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 09:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JeffHs
Where are you? I was really worried about mine when I first fitted the 40s. My tester near Derby,who I've known for years reassured me that he
passes things far worse than mine (1600 Pinto on 40s). He always does an emission test (and it passes) but because I'm on visible smoke only, he
doesn't care what it reads. [/.quote]
You're lucky then. As said, there's no way of knowing who will be doing the test. Are you sure you should be on a smoke only test?
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ianjenn
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 11:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gunman
quote:
Originally posted by ianjenn
check your V5. This should state the CO2 that needs to be achieved at MOT. I suspect on an F reg that it will be a visual inspection only. Take your
V5 and show the MOT tester
I thought if it isn't listed it goes by the standard 3.5 and 1200?
check this link out below has details of what standard should be used on kit cars.
MOT emission details
[Edited on 7/6/12 by ianjenn]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 11:25 AM |
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I'd recommend this stuff, I've used it in the past and it worked wonders
http://www.demonkar.com/ProdImages/cataclean2.jpg
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=135838
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gunman
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 11:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ianjenn
quote:
Originally posted by gunman
quote:
Originally posted by ianjenn
check your V5. This should state the CO2 that needs to be achieved at MOT. I suspect on an F reg that it will be a visual inspection only. Take your
V5 and show the MOT tester
I thought if it isn't listed it goes by the standard 3.5 and 1200?
check this link out below has details of what standard should be used on kit cars.
MOT emission details
[Edited on 7/6/12 by ianjenn]
Ok, but that raises another question, my date of first registration is 2001 but the front of the v5 states previously registered in 1988 (i assume
when it was still a.sierra). Which is considered the first used date?
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gunman
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 12:01 PM |
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Just re-read it and figured that one out, was using my phone first time round.
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gunman
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 04:46 PM |
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OK, my V5 has no value recorded against co2.
So, date of first registration in 21-09-2001 (build date I presume)
In Special notes it states Declared Manufactured 1988.
So, can I assume this car hasn't had to go through SVA then as it's an F reg with no co2 value?
According to the link above that means it's a visual test but I'd like to find something official linked to the DVTA in Northern
Ireland.
Cheers
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gunman
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 04:54 PM |
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I Found the Northern Ireland testers manual and I may be in trouble
http://www.dvlni.gov.uk/Freedom%20of%20Information/Light%20Vehicle%20Inspection%20Manual/Exhaust%20emissions.pdf
Kit cars used before 1st june 2001 are exempt, mine is registered in September 2001.
Looks like I may be getting emissions tested then.
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gunman
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 04:58 PM |
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Mind you, if I follow that flow chart it brings me to doing a cat emissions test and this car has never had a cat. I'm confused.
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gunman
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 05:51 PM |
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Last years certificate has no mention of date of registration but has Approx year of Manufacture as 1988. Does this mean that the mysterious value of
"First Use" will be on the system as 1988?
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 08:26 PM |
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Should be max 3.5% CO and 1200 PPM hydrocarbons which can be tested at 2,000rpm.
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gunman
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 08:37 PM |
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I can't see how it will be unless the reckoning is its a 2001 car fitted with a 1988 engine and tested as 1988.
I think it really depends on what they concider to be the first use date. I may phone tomorrow just to find out what they have on the system for
it.
[Edited on 7/6/12 by gunman]
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 09:07 PM |
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It should be tested for the age of the engine,
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gunman
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| posted on 7/6/12 at 09:28 PM |
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Unless the first used date is deemed pre june 2001 and then it's visual only. I need to find out how they calculate first used date.
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gunman
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| posted on 8/6/12 at 09:23 AM |
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Well, I just phoned the test centre and got put through to "Someone Technical", I have been told that they do not emissions test kit cars.
I said that the site says they do after 2001 but was told, "no we don't, it gets checked at IVA not MOT". This seems strange as
then who's to say after IVA you dont change it the settings and never get tested. I dont think anyone knows 100% the answer so I'll suck
it and see so to speak!
They wouldn't (or couldn't) give me a straight answer as to my date of first use!
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mtechmatt
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| posted on 8/6/12 at 06:14 PM |
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We have an MOT bay as well as the rolling road here at M-tech so as you can imagine we have to deal with things like this all the time....
The test LAW states that it is always found in favour of the presenter, not the tester, so if you walk in and say its a pre-72 engine (I don't
have the manual on me here so the year may be wrong but I know a lot of stuff came in at that age, and it is something I could check on monday if
needed), that is enough for a visual emission check only. Of course, the tester could argue this way and that, but unless he can prove the engine is
older, he has to go with what you have presented, unless it is obvious of course, i.e a Zetec in there...
That would be why they say they dont test them, they do, but they may as well not, as everyone can say, its an old engine...
When you log a car on, the first used date will either be prestored on the MOT Computerisiation, and auto fill in, or, if it is not, the tester can
ask mto see a V5, or, failing that ask YOU for the date YOU BELIEVE TO BE the first use. Again, always in presenters favour...
That may help...
Matt
[Edited on 8/6/12 by mtechmatt]
[Edited on 8/6/12 by mtechmatt]
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gunman
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| posted on 8/6/12 at 08:21 PM |
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That would be good. The testers manual (for Northern Ireland) states the following:
Test according to which is older, engine or vehicle.
e.g. a 1995 car fitted with a 1991 engine (of whatever make), test to 1991 standards for
emission purposes.
Note:
The onus is on the vehicle presenter to prove engine age.
So they would require me to prove the age of the engine.
I personally dont understand how te V5 helps establish first use either. There is no field for "first use". There is a first
registration date and a manufactured date, that is what I asked the MOT station, which is considered the first use date, but the couldn't tell
me.
The MOT certificate doesnt have first use on it either, it has manufacture date.
I was thinking about this today, it must be the manufacture date. If for some reason a car was manufactured in 1971 and registered in 2011,
there's no way it could pass emissions standards for 2011.
I'm happy enough that I wont get emissions tested but I'd love to figure out whether I should or not. Just for future reference.
I'll ask the tester tomorrow what the system says is first use date. As an aside, the test centre I'm using is one of the only IVA test
stations in the country so they should know what they are doing with kit cars!
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