KFC
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 08:30 PM |
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How strong is the Hayabusa gearbox for a conversion?
I'm looking at a Hayabusa 1300 engine and breaking it down and selling the bits to fund the gearbox conversion, I'm unsure yet on how
much load the gearbox will take or I should go for another bike engine with a stronger gearbox?
I've seen enough photo's of inside of the box to have a go at making the gearbox conversion with bellhousing to fit a 3.5 V8 Rover engine.
Lots of fabricating and machining involved.
I know I'll get people saying, eh, why would you want to do that? Waste of time and effort.
Because it probably hasn't been done before??? A cheaper alternative to a proper dog ring box. I love the sequential dog ring gearbox, synchro
box is too slow.
I just want something a bit different.
I'll rebuild the engine with a performance cam, that will bring the HP up to about 190ish and drop the torque to about 160lbs, hopefully. I
still think the gearbox may grenade itself so I'm after other thoughts on a stronger gearbox out of a bike.
Kev
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big_l
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 08:45 PM |
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ihave a nice 06 hayabusa engine but has a conrod bearing failure so needs a rebuild ..
07737814426
£1200
Check out my blog  mnrvortxhayabusa@blogspot.com
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ReMan
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 08:46 PM |
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We're all for doing things "because you can" here, but I for one would hate to see so much time money and effort wasted.
Maths and metallurgy aside I think it would last 5 minutes, but as ever I'm happy to be proved wrong
www.plusnine.co.uk
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KFC
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 08:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big_l
ihave a nice 06 hayabusa engine but has a conrod bearing failure so needs a rebuild ..
07737814426
£1200
I can get a running one for about that much.. i'm looking at a whole bike for £2200. Thanks anyway. 
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KFC
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 09:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
We're all for doing things "because you can" here, but I for one would hate to see so much time money and effort wasted.
Maths and metallurgy aside I think it would last 5 minutes, but as ever I'm happy to be proved wrong
Yeah, I'm thinking the same. I've seen a 265bhp Hayabusa on pistonheads and seems to go fine but mine will be 150kg heavier, it's
the torque of the V8 I think will strip the gears.
Any ideas for a stronger bike gearbox?
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ReMan
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 09:16 PM |
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Strong+Bike gearbox 
I'd have thought the Busa would be about as strong as they come, being at the "torquey" end of the scale
www.plusnine.co.uk
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 09:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by KFC
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
We're all for doing things "because you can" here, but I for one would hate to see so much time money and effort wasted.
Maths and metallurgy aside I think it would last 5 minutes, but as ever I'm happy to be proved wrong
Yeah, I'm thinking the same. I've seen a 265bhp Hayabusa on pistonheads and seems to go fine but mine will be 150kg heavier, it's
the torque of the V8 I think will strip the gears.
Any ideas for a stronger bike gearbox?
Look at the big V-Twin gearboxes that go into choppers etc. lots of torque in those.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 09:39 PM |
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I like the idea of a busa box, why not connect it to a high reving powerful engine, maybe something from the suzuki motorcycle range.
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KFC
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 10:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
I like the idea of a busa box, why not connect it to a high reving powerful engine, maybe something from the suzuki motorcycle range.
Uhh, are you trying lo be funny? Lol, The hayabusa Is a Suzuki??
I don't want a bike sounding car,
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 10:17 PM |
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Duncan Calper runs over 500bhp in his busa turbo Dax, not sure if he's uprated the box, but shows they can take alot of power, so can't
see any reason why it can't be done
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Wadders
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 10:20 PM |
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Can't imagine any bike box coping with the torque of a V8, everything in them is tiny compared to any car boxes
i can think of that are up to handling even a modest V8 like the rover. Car boxes are big and heavy for a reason
Its easy enough to wreck a bec box using the standard bike engine if you are hard with them on the downshifts.
Would love to think it was possible, but reckon it's a complete non starter.
Al.
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eddie99
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 10:26 PM |
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I too would love to see it done but think it hasn't been done much for a reason. As above, theres a reason CEC sequentials are big heavy
jobs.... Yeah it'd cope with the power but i don't think anyone has got that much torque out of a busa and you'll always be on the
limits of the box.
If you've got lots of time and money to chuck at it to be different, then go for it. If for whatever reason you dont, then don't.
You'll probably get through a few gearboxes getting it right, so budget for that
Good luck and let us know if you go for it.
http://www.elitemotorsporteng.co.uk/
Twitter: @Elitemotoreng
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Elite-Motorsport-Engineering/153409081394323
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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KFC
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 10:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
quote:
Originally posted by KFC
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
We're all for doing things "because you can" here, but I for one would hate to see so much time money and effort wasted.
Maths and metallurgy aside I think it would last 5 minutes, but as ever I'm happy to be proved wrong
Yeah, I'm thinking the same. I've seen a 265bhp Hayabusa on pistonheads and seems to go fine but mine will be 150kg heavier, it's
the torque of the V8 I think will strip the gears.
Any ideas for a stronger bike gearbox?
Look at the big V-Twin gearboxes that go into choppers etc. lots of torque in those.
Ah yeah, good idea! I'll look into it.
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 10:42 PM |
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I also know when I purchased my turbo kit from Velocity in the USA, they ran a drag Hyabusa with over 700bhp with a massive 10/11" wide slick
tyre, which did 6 seconds 1/4 miles on a stock gearbox
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Simon
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| posted on 2/7/12 at 11:16 PM |
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Rover V8 approx 200ft lb torque, turboed 'busa lump with 300 bhp and same ftlb
Torque is torque whether it comes from a V8 or bike 4 cyl so why should having 200 torques from a V8 make it more likely to strip the teeth of any
cogs that are ok with 200+ torques from a modded bike engine..
Edited to say, Triumph Rocket III has just under 170ftlb.
ATB
Simon
[Edited on 2/7/12 by Simon]
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Ivan
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| posted on 3/7/12 at 03:16 AM |
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I think a more likely project would be to use one of DSG type gearboxes available on modern cars. Or even a modern auto box with aftermarket shift
computer and paddle shifts.- something from Mercedes or BMW for instance.
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daviep
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| posted on 3/7/12 at 10:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Rover V8 approx 200ft lb torque, turboed 'busa lump with 300 bhp and same ftlb
Torque is torque whether it comes from a V8 or bike 4 cyl so why should having 200 torques from a V8 make it more likely to strip the teeth of any
cogs that are ok with 200+ torques from a modded bike engine..
Edited to say, Triumph Rocket III has just under 170ftlb.
ATB
Simon
[Edited on 2/7/12 by Simon]
Don't try and be logical, everybody knows that V8 "torques" are much bigger than regular ones, there is no scientific theory
available at the moment to explain this phenomenon but Jeremy Clarkson and other great thinkers are working tirelessly in search of the truth.
I however agree with you and suspect that it may be to do with the primary reduction ratio.
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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Ivan
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| posted on 3/7/12 at 10:38 AM |
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Don't try and be logical, everybody knows that V8 "torques" are much bigger than regular ones, there is no scientific theory
available at the moment to explain this phenomenon but Jeremy Clarkson and other great thinkers are working tirelessly in search of the truth.
I however agree with you and suspect that it may be to do with the primary reduction ratio.
Cheers
Davie
There might well be something to do with the number of torque/power impulses per revolution that could impact on mechanical stress/strain on
components and almost certainly has something to do the ease with which V8's break traction compared to 4's. V8's have twice as many
as 4's so keep the stress/strain on the components longer.
It's beyond my powers of deduction at the moment to work out if this is important or not as I am mentally busy with something else..
[Edited on 3/7/12 by Ivan]
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KFC
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| posted on 3/7/12 at 12:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Rover V8 approx 200ft lb torque, turboed 'busa lump with 300 bhp and same ftlb
Torque is torque whether it comes from a V8 or bike 4 cyl so why should having 200 torques from a V8 make it more likely to strip the teeth of any
cogs that are ok with 200+ torques from a modded bike engine..
Edited to say, Triumph Rocket III has just under 170ftlb.
ATB
Simon
[Edited on 2/7/12 by Simon]
Hmmm, I was comparing torque from the bike engine, I can only find specs with no more than 98lbs of torque? I can't see anywhere with more
torque, nothing like 150lbs?? That is a third more!!
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kjouk
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| posted on 3/7/12 at 01:27 PM |
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Turbo is key to more lbs/ft from a BEC, but isn't the right question:- Is this less than the tyres will take before spinning in the intended
use.
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KFC
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| posted on 3/7/12 at 03:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kjouk
Turbo is key to more lbs/ft from a BEC, but isn't the right question:- Is this less than the tyres will take before spinning in the intended
use.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more, contact patch (friction) vs torque.
I might just put in a normal gearbox, too much headache and worry all for the few times I want to go flat out. It would sound good but I wonder how
hard the shifts would feel like on full power? I know what I high powered car feels like from 1st to 2nd if done a bit sloppy, kind of a bang
feel..
People talk about a modern semi auto, I wonder if you can Iet rid of the electronics and use is as a manual? Twin clutch sequential.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 3/7/12 at 04:05 PM |
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So the steady-state torque can (probably) be handled, but what about the higher inertia of a car engine and hence the dynamic shock loads.
What I mean is, when you change gear and the engine speed doesn't match then with a bike engine the angular momentum is small and so the forces
to slow the engine are small. With a car engine the inertia is massive (compare the crank-shafts, and flywheels), I wouldn't be surprised if v8
angular momentum wasn't 10x that of a bike engine. I think these dynamic forces will knacker the box.
The other thing to consider is how you will get the power into the gearbox. By this I mean, on the bike there is the final reduction gear that drives
the clutch and hence the box. This doesn't fit so well with the way a car engine drives things.
If you do away with the final reduction gear then that will affect torque that gets dumped into the box, and also will affect the final gearing that
you will need from your differential to get sensible speeds.
Matt
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