ChrisLeary
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 05:58 PM |
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Fibreglass advice
Evening all,
I need to replace my nosecone, but due to the fact that it's wider than a standard one I want to make my own, and in the process learn a new
skill!
I've had a search, but can't really find an answer, so my question is this:
How much glass fibre will I need to make a mould and the final thing? There are kits from east coast fibreglass supplies in a 5m sq package, this
includes 5m sq of surface tissue and 5m sq of 450g chopped matting. Will this be enough?
Also, any advice on how many layers I should do for the mould and also in the final part?
All advice is welcome,
Thanks,
Chris
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owelly
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 06:06 PM |
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Buy a mould!
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/34/viewthread.php?tid=172320
You'll need a shed load of matting and resin to make a mould and you'll use it once. Its an expensive way to get a nose cone but I see
what you're saying about wanting to make your own. I would say that you'll need a lot more than 5msq of matting just for the mould....
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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ChrisLeary
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 06:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by owelly
Buy a mould!
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/34/viewthread.php?tid=172320
You'll need a shed load of matting and resin to make a mould and you'll use it once. Its an expensive way to get a nose cone but I see
what you're saying about wanting to make your own. I would say that you'll need a lot more than 5msq of matting just for the mould....
I'd love to buy a mould to make my life easier, but like I say, the nose I'm going to take the mould off that fits my chassis is much
wider than a standard nose so I really have to make my own mould...
Will I use so much for the mould because it needs to be so much stiffer?
Cheers,
Chris
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 06:22 PM |
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Why do you need a new nose? it has to be in good condition to take a mould from it...
Cant it just be repaired
Ben
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40inches
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 06:24 PM |
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Buy a nosecone, split it down the middle and glass it back together at the desired width. Simples
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=172219
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ChrisLeary
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 06:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
Why do you need a new nose? it has to be in good condition to take a mould from it...
Cant it just be repaired
No, because the position of it has changed so much that I won't be able to patch it the gaps up between the chassis and the actual nose. I was
planning on making the nose fit properly, making it the shape I actually want (I bought the car built) and then use it as a buck.
Chris
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ChrisLeary
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 06:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
Buy a nosecone, split it down the middle and glass it back together at the desired width. Simples
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=172219
It's not really the width thats the problem, its how it fits the chassis.
Chris
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40inches
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 06:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisLeary
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
Buy a nosecone, split it down the middle and glass it back together at the desired width. Simples
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=172219
It's not really the width thats the problem, its how it fits the chassis.
Chris
Mmmm! intrigued now, need photos
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ChrisLeary
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 06:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisLeary
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
Buy a nosecone, split it down the middle and glass it back together at the desired width. Simples
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=172219
It's not really the width thats the problem, its how it fits the chassis.
Chris
Mmmm! intrigued now, need photos
I'll get down the garage tomorrow and take some photos to show you what I mean. Like I said in my OP, it'll be a new skill, maybe
I'm jumping the gun and I'm missing something that would make it simpler to repair the old one than trying making a mould.
Cheers,
Chris
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 06:40 PM |
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It's a lot of work because you will have to make the buck first, then the mould and then the final piece
It's very rewarding when it goes well but can also be very frustrating at times, it will prob have to be a 2 piece mould or poss 3,
You will need gelcoat with 2 different coloured pigments, a dark colour for the mould and then your chosen colour for the finished piece
Chopped strand mat, I would go for 300gsm as its easier to work into the corners but you need more length of it as its not as thick as 450
Lay up resin
Catalyst for the gelcoat and lay up
Acetone
Paddle roller
Throw away brushes
Mould release wax
Paper cups
Mixing sticks
Latex gloves
And prob some more bits
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maccmike
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 06:57 PM |
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Iv been doing fg and cf recently, really cool.
you dont need pigments if your painting.
5m sq of each will be more than enough, you only need 2 layers totalling at least 600 for the mould and 2 + gel coat for the finished item.
you'll also need wood, plenty of cheap body filler and sand paper.
Spend most your time on the buck, finish any imperfections on the negative mould.
practice on something small to start with, just a basic shape.
let me know how you get on
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steve m
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 08:12 PM |
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I hope this will help.
I made all the fiberglass on my 7 <<< and if i had my time again would buy what ever was on the shelf that fits the job
My first attempts were the front mudguards, made from scratch, and were one serious pain in the arse, and still not happy !
The rear arches were moulded from a lotus 7 pair, came out slightley better, but the widening was again a PITA
Nose cone was taken off a caterham. and was by far my best attempt, yet still a PITA
If i had my time again, i would buy straight off the shelf, and make the car fit the FiberGlass
Seriously, unless you have infianate time, you will waste money, and time, and still not be happy with the result
Steve
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 08:17 PM |
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As above... Buy, and take up knitting or something...
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RK
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| posted on 14/7/12 at 11:53 PM |
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It might not turn out, but your few hundred pounds will go towards "self improvement". This is my own experience, which is pretty much
what the above was (although, I am glad I tried, personally).
I tried knitting actually, too. Gave up very quickly. Are you really off cars, Steve??
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maccmike
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| posted on 15/7/12 at 12:27 AM |
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a few hundred!! I could do one in cf for that
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iank
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| posted on 15/7/12 at 08:44 AM |
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If you want to make your own buck then this might help http://www.georgecushing.net/Nosecone2.html
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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RK
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| posted on 17/7/12 at 12:45 AM |
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By the time you faff around and get it right, you will have spent a few hundred, yes. Be honest.
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 17/7/12 at 09:22 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by maccmike
a few hundred!! I could do one in cf for that
No you couldn't!
I made a new nosecone pattern and mould (and scuttle and bonnet, specifically configured to make cfrp parts) recently. The nosecone pattern alone had
at least 150hrs in it, to get to the point where it was fair, high polish and mouldable.
Another 6 hours for the (two part)mould, along with £80 worth of material.
To do a nosecone in carbon (which I've done several times) properly, you need at least two layers of 200g woven cloth, with 3~6mm core. Up to 5
layers in the areas where there is no core. Vacuum (or autoclave as I have access to), and good quality epoxy resin. Materials are over £150.
That's all depending on if the job is being done 'properly', of course.
And before anyone asks, my parts will not fit any existing Locost type chassis. Wider all the way through, and taller to accommodate a 2.0l Mazda/2.3
Duratec. All for export customers.
Cheers,
nev.
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maccmike
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| posted on 17/7/12 at 09:25 AM |
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£80 + £150 = errr
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 17/7/12 at 12:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by maccmike
£80 + £150 = errr
£150+£250= more than two hundred...Errrrr
Plus the many hundreds to make the pattern and mould......Errrrr... Nearer to a thousand plus.
Not £200!!!
[Edited on 17/7/12 by Neville Jones]
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maccmike
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| posted on 17/7/12 at 03:40 PM |
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You need to find a different supplier mate theyre ripping you off
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 18/7/12 at 10:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by maccmike
You need to find a different supplier mate theyre ripping you off
The only way I'd get material cheaper is to thieve it, like you must be doing.
Been in the trade here for over 30 years, and sort of know the ins and outs, and who sells what for how much. SP/Gurit and it's back door is but
a mile or so away. Same with Westland Aerospace and their 'out of date' skip.
Cheers,
Nev.
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maccmike
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| posted on 18/7/12 at 10:55 AM |
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''here comes that Neville guy, we're gonna make some profit today!''
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owelly
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| posted on 18/7/12 at 11:10 AM |
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If you guys have finished squabbling......
It's easy to prove the cost of gear: simply post up the supply details.
I use http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/
or: http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/
If you make a nose cone mould out of just two layers of glass, it will be as floppy as a moist tissue which will make the final piece rubbish. It will
make pulling the nose cone out difficult without wrecking the mould. Even if you make a wooden cradle or frame to put the mould in, it will still need
more than two layers. I made a dash binacle mould with three layers and that was just about OK but it was no bigger than a shoe box.
I would say the mould will need to use at least twice the materials as the final piece. Plus the release products and the other consumables like
rollers, brushes, mixing pots, etc.
If you want to make your own moulds just for the hell of it, then go for it. If you think you'll save some time and/or money, buy the mould in
the link and add an infil to make it wider. You could widen it with wood if need be!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 18/7/12 at 11:36 AM |
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Not squabbling, just pointing out another piece of misinformation.
My mould for the nose is gelcoat, two layers of 600, a layer of 5mm coremat(well soaked with resin, thinned), then another two layers of 600. All of
that in materials is more than £80.
I get my carbon at trade prices, which are considerably less than those quoted on the above sites.
My materials come from Scott Bader(trade for 25 yrs), GRP Supplies (Trade for 28 yrs), SP systems/Gurit(trade for 30yrs, and personal friend of boss),
Marineware (since they started yonks ago. I know the principals personally and sail with them).
So, you don't get much better than that.
Saying you can make a nosecone mould and then a nosecone for under £200 is grossly misquoting the situation. If someone is setting out to do this from
scratch, then the moulding tools(Rollers and such) will cost near £100. I've had to renew some recently and near fell over at the bill. Same
prices for the tools everywhere, not a lot off for trade nowdays.
The pattern cost over £200 in materials alone, including foam, csm & resin, filler, surfacer primer, many different grades of sanding material,
and wet and dry, then finally glosscoat. Then there's the release wax(1/4 tin @ £10/tin), it all adds up. Acetone is now over £25/25L, and
you'll use 10L or more.
You'd be paying near £100 just to get those materials delivered, I get them delivered gratis.
So please, give me credit for far too many years experience, I've been doing this for far too long to not know the realities.
There aren't any shortcuts to doing the job properly.
Cheers,
Nev.
Just as an added comment....I pay less for top quality prepreg than what the dry materials cost to the public.
[Edited on 18/7/12 by Neville Jones]
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