DANMAN
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| posted on 28/7/12 at 07:28 AM |
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Locoblade clutch problem.
Hi guys.
After screwing my fourth gear at a track day a few weeks back I have fitted a used gearbox which appeared to be in good condition. I have put the
engine back together and got it back in the car but the clutch return seems very weak. I havn't started it yet or even put oil in it but before
I do I obviously need to get the clutch sorted. If I wind the return spring back a bit it seems ok. It is like the spring has unwound one whole turn
(possibly while I had it apart) but if I try to wind it up a full turn one end doesn't stay in its factory stop like there is too much pressure
on it. Just wondering if it is only the return spring that keeps pressure on the lifter arm or does the pressure plate put pressure on it also? The
way it is there isn't even enough tension to pull the clutch cable back.
Daily Driver - Audi A4 2L Turbo Quattro
Work Horse - Falcon XR8 Ute - Now Supercharged!
Rally Beast - 1972 Ford Escort 2L
Off The Road - Locost 2L Turbo (Z1 Concept)
Track Car - Stuart Taylor Blade
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ReMan
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| posted on 28/7/12 at 07:57 AM |
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The little spring on the arm does not provide return, its only there to keep the cable tight really, doubt its barely strong enough to return the
pedal on it's own. The feel/return you get on the pedal is the main 5 clutch springs, so if that's lost , then you probably need to have
another look before you fill with oil.
www.plusnine.co.uk
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DANMAN
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| posted on 28/7/12 at 08:16 AM |
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Thanks for the reply. I followed the service manual when reassembling. I put the clutch outer on then the clutch center and bolted it up with the main
shaft nut to 94lb-ft and staked it. Then followed by all the clutch discs and plates (which I stacked in order when I originally removed them) then
the lifter piece and finally the pressure plate. I installed the five springs and then tightend up the five bolts holding them. There was no specific
torque settings for these five bolts in the service manual. I then put on the crankcase cover. Not sure where I've gone wrong unless it needs to
be started for some reason before the pressure plate takes up pressure but I can't see how. Really has me baffled.
Daily Driver - Audi A4 2L Turbo Quattro
Work Horse - Falcon XR8 Ute - Now Supercharged!
Rally Beast - 1972 Ford Escort 2L
Off The Road - Locost 2L Turbo (Z1 Concept)
Track Car - Stuart Taylor Blade
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ReMan
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| posted on 28/7/12 at 08:19 AM |
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I wonder if you haven't got the release arm cam located on the clutch properly when you put the case back on?
www.plusnine.co.uk
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mark chandler
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| posted on 28/7/12 at 09:43 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
I wonder if you haven't got the release arm cam located on the clutch properly when you put the case back on?
This sounds very possible, you have to have everything lined up perfectly with the rod fully extended as you place the cover, then work the arm to
pull the cover tightly on the dowels to know you have got it right.
The external spring is not really doing much at all apart from keeping the cable in tension.
Regards Mark
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DANMAN
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| posted on 28/7/12 at 10:22 AM |
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Good point. There is no mention of needing to do it in the service manual but I guess that doesn't neccessarily mean that it isn't
required. The lifter piece that goes into the lifter arm isn't spring loaded so I think it would push in when I go to put the cover back on.
Short of filling it with oil and starting it to see if the lifter piece pushes out into the lifter arm fork I'm not sure what else to do,
besides pulling the cover back off and trying to line it up before putting it back on as you mentioned. It would be a pain in the arse to have to dump
the oil to pull it apart again.
The service manual says:
"Install the right crank case cover.
Connect the clutch cable to the clutch lifter arm and set the bracket, then install and tighten the right crank case cover SH bolts to the specified
torque"
I believe when they say "set bracket" they are refering to the bracket that holds the clutch cable in place which uses two of the crank
case cover bolts?
Daily Driver - Audi A4 2L Turbo Quattro
Work Horse - Falcon XR8 Ute - Now Supercharged!
Rally Beast - 1972 Ford Escort 2L
Off The Road - Locost 2L Turbo (Z1 Concept)
Track Car - Stuart Taylor Blade
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mark chandler
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| posted on 28/7/12 at 12:16 PM |
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It's very easy to knock the lifter pin, try sticking in place with a little vaseline (not grease) as this will disolve.
You have to twiddle the actuator arm to the sweet spot when you look into the housing the claws are hidden in the casting.
[Edited on 28/7/12 by mark chandler]
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ReMan
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| posted on 28/7/12 at 03:15 PM |
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Dont fil it and start it , it will not heal itself
www.plusnine.co.uk
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DANMAN
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| posted on 29/7/12 at 07:35 AM |
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I removed the cover and refitted it with the lifter in the lifter arm, yook a few goes as it wanted to push in everytime I tried to fit it. Strange
that the workshop manual doesn't mention anything about lining it up when replacing the cover. The only thing is that the clutch doesn't
have the same travel it used to. The cable is in the same spot and adjusted the same but it has about half the travel it used to. I havn't
filled it or started it yet, any ideas?
Daily Driver - Audi A4 2L Turbo Quattro
Work Horse - Falcon XR8 Ute - Now Supercharged!
Rally Beast - 1972 Ford Escort 2L
Off The Road - Locost 2L Turbo (Z1 Concept)
Track Car - Stuart Taylor Blade
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ReMan
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| posted on 29/7/12 at 08:02 AM |
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So you have the correct feel back?
But you run out of pedal travel sooner?
Is it defiantly engaging and releasing drive?
www.plusnine.co.uk
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DANMAN
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| posted on 29/7/12 at 10:31 AM |
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The feel is the same but the pedal is much closer to the firewall resulting in it running out of travel before it would be fully engaged. It is like
the cable mounting has changed but it hasn't. I havn't started it yet so I'm not sure how it will go but I didn't want to fill
it up with oil yet until I knew what was happening with the clutch. I will put it in gear tomorrow and see if pusing the clutch in allows the car to
move.
Daily Driver - Audi A4 2L Turbo Quattro
Work Horse - Falcon XR8 Ute - Now Supercharged!
Rally Beast - 1972 Ford Escort 2L
Off The Road - Locost 2L Turbo (Z1 Concept)
Track Car - Stuart Taylor Blade
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ReMan
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| posted on 29/7/12 at 10:35 AM |
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"I will put it in gear tomorrow and see if pusing the clutch in allows the car to move"
Yes do that.
It may be just that it's dry now, if your sure the basket and places went together correctly
www.plusnine.co.uk
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DANMAN
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 10:00 AM |
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So I bolted up the prop shaft today, put it into 2nd gear and tried to rock it back and forth with the clutch in, it certainly doesn't seem to
be working, it feels like the clutch isn't doing anything at all. It just doesn't seem to have the travel it use to.
This is where it feels like it is starting to work the pressure plates:
But I'm sure it use to take up about here previously:
[Edited on 31/7/12 by DANMAN]
Daily Driver - Audi A4 2L Turbo Quattro
Work Horse - Falcon XR8 Ute - Now Supercharged!
Rally Beast - 1972 Ford Escort 2L
Off The Road - Locost 2L Turbo (Z1 Concept)
Track Car - Stuart Taylor Blade
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ReMan
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 10:29 AM |
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I agree. That wjhat and where mine operates as you decribe
I'm still convinced that you've not engaged that lever on the clutch properly
(Unless you meessed up the clutch assembly badly)!
www.plusnine.co.uk
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DANMAN
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| posted on 4/8/12 at 06:51 AM |
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Ok, so I pulled the clutch apart again todya for another look. It seems like the pressure plate is being "held out" for want of a better
term which explains where the clutch lever ends up. It is like the clutch is already engaged and has no more travel in it. I pulled out the clutch
plates and worked out where the pressure plate seems like it should be at rest:
But when the clutch plates are all in it is resting here:
It is like it has too many clutch plates but they are the same ones I pulled out.
[Edited on 4/8/12 by DANMAN]
Daily Driver - Audi A4 2L Turbo Quattro
Work Horse - Falcon XR8 Ute - Now Supercharged!
Rally Beast - 1972 Ford Escort 2L
Off The Road - Locost 2L Turbo (Z1 Concept)
Track Car - Stuart Taylor Blade
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smorse
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| posted on 4/8/12 at 07:29 AM |
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sorry if sucking eggs spring to mind but did you put the plates all in the right order paying attention to the 1st & last one? the last one is
different to the rest & fits in the slots on the outer part of the basket & from your photo looks like its not sitting right or it could be my
eyesight
[Edited on 4/8/12 by smorse]
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ReMan
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| posted on 4/8/12 at 08:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smorse
sorry if sucking eggs spring to mind but did you put the plates all in the right order paying attention to the 1st & last one? the last one is
different to the rest & fits in the slots on the outer part of the basket & from your photo looks like its not sitting right or it could be my
eyesight
[Edited on 4/8/12 by smorse]
Yes do check this, the first thin plate sits inside the anti judder spring the last as described.
You mentioned you had a service manual so assumed this was covered in it (like the arm positioning)
[Edited on 4/8/12 by ReMan]
www.plusnine.co.uk
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DANMAN
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| posted on 4/8/12 at 10:56 AM |
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There is definately no mention in the service manual regarding aligning the arm on the lifter, it simply says to fit the cover and connect the
clutch cable. I have rechecked the judder spring & seat and the clutch disc & plate order. In the manual it says clutch disc "A"
goes in first with pads measuring 7.5 x 5.6mm, I checked the pads with a set of verniers and it is definately disc "A". Then it says to
insert clutch plates and clutch disc "B" alternately with the "B" pads measuring 10.5 x 5.4mm, once again I checked the pad
sizes with verniers and they are definately discs "B". The disc "C" is inseted with pads measuring 10.5 x 5.4mm, again checked
with the verniers and that is the right right disc.
It's hard to tell in the small pictures in the service manual but it looks like plate "C" sits in a defferent set of locators to the
other discs (although I did try it in the same ones and it wasn't any different).
Daily Driver - Audi A4 2L Turbo Quattro
Work Horse - Falcon XR8 Ute - Now Supercharged!
Rally Beast - 1972 Ford Escort 2L
Off The Road - Locost 2L Turbo (Z1 Concept)
Track Car - Stuart Taylor Blade
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ReMan
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| posted on 4/8/12 at 11:54 AM |
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Looks good to go then
Try it.
You don't even need to screw the cover on just get the lever hooked on properly
You should be able to tell then if its working and got a proper spring feel to it by moving the lever, (with some big pliers or something)
www.plusnine.co.uk
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