voucht
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| posted on 27/12/12 at 07:43 PM |
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My engine dilemma
Hello everybody,
I'm building a Haynes roadster, and as I know there are a lot of Ford specialists on this forum, I'm asking you for your help in my
dilemma.
Sorry, this post is a bit long, but please, stay with me till the end, I just need to be very specific about my problem.
I will soon make my first engine fitting trials in the chassis which is finished, but I have different options when it comes to the engine/gearbox
set-up:
- I have a 2,0i DOHC + MT75 from my donor. I can't fit a MT75 gearbox in my chassis, so I can not use this engine with its gearbox. I'm
not particularly excited in using this big and heavy engine in the Roadster... but: this engine looks in a much better shape than the SOHC I've
got on the side (see below). It will be “plug and play” if I use it in the Roadster, as I removed the electric loom, ECU and ancillaries from the
donor that I plan to reuse, and to me it looks like much less trouble to make it work in the roadster than the other engine I have.
- I have a 2,0i SOHC (Pinto EFI) + Type 9 gearbox. If I use this engine, I will need to buy or make an engine loom and buy ECU, as well as some
ancillaries. This engine has been bought for a very cheap price, and has been sleeping outside on a pallet covered by a plywood board for the last 2
years. I don't know how much work it will need before I can make it run. I don't have any invoice/sales certificate for it, and SFRO
(Swedish IVA) will ask for one as it is not the engine from the donor, and it will not be easy to get in touch with the guy who sold it to me... but:
this will fit straightly in my chassis which has been built for Pinto + Type 9 gear box.
So my two options are:
- Getting all the needed papers for the SOHC, make it work, get the correct engine loom, ECU, ancillaries.
- As I can not use the MT75 in my chassis, I could use the DOHC with the Type 9 Gear box from the SOHC. But I know they don't match together:
I've read that the DOHC flywheel is too thick (8-10mm) to fit directly on the type 9, and needs to be machined, ans spigot ring needs to be
changed. As I don't mind scarifying the SOHC, do you think I can simply remove the flywheel, spigot ring, starter motor, etc. from the SOHC and
fit them on the DOHC? Will they fit ? Then I will not need to machine the flywheel of the DOHC, and would be able to fit my Type 9 on it, as
I've read the bolt patterns of the back flange are the same on both blocks.
What do you guys think is my best option, considering my priorities:
1 - as less work as possible
2 - as cheap as possible
3 - Roadster performances (weight, hp,...)
Thank you in advance for all your answers and comments.
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 27/12/12 at 08:15 PM |
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easiest way is to use a silvertop zetec ,there are a few things that need to fit it like water pump needs to be from a non power steering one and the
sump needs shortening but they will be cheap enough from a rotten escort/mondeo and fit straight on to a type 9
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 27/12/12 at 08:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
easiest way is to use a silvertop zetec ,there are a few things that need to fit it like water pump needs to be from a non power steering one and the
sump needs shortening but they will be cheap enough from a rotten escort/mondeo and fit straight on to a type 9
I agree, both the engines mentioned are pretty ancient anyway and things have moved on quite a lot. If I had to pick one though it would be the pinto
as there are a lot more tuning options available
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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deezee
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| posted on 27/12/12 at 08:55 PM |
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Cheapest is buy a spigot ring, fit the sohc flywheel to the dohc. Then use the starter off the sohc and use the type 9. The zetec is a good engine,
but its not as powerful or cheap to install as everyone makes out. If you want power ditch the heavily modified ford engine route and go saab turbo.
If you want cheap and easy go dohc.
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whitestu
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| posted on 27/12/12 at 09:34 PM |
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What emission hoops will you need to jump through for registration?
For the UK, the DOHC would be the easiest route.
Zetecs are a great engine and dead easy to fit as Conrod says. I SVA'd with the CVH and swapped to a Zetec afterwards.
Stu
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snapper
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| posted on 27/12/12 at 10:01 PM |
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The injected Pinto is an easy fit, dump the injection and run any Pinto carb and manifold or fit bike carbs
You can get an easy 130bhp with this setup and upto 150 with a bit of care
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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voucht
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| posted on 28/12/12 at 06:11 PM |
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Hi,
Thank you so much for all the answers.
I'd love to have a Zetec in my Roadster, but I already have two engines and I'd like to avoid buying a third one But Zetec is
definitely something I will think about once the car is on the road. However, I know that you can not straightly fit a Type 9 on a Zetec, some
modifications are needed too
(http://www.mtechautomotive.co.uk/guides/index.php/Zetec_
to_Type-9_Gearbox_Fitting_Guide)
So, as Deezee advised, I will try first to go the DOHC route and fit the Type 9 on it as it looks to be the easiest/cheapest route.
Today, I removed the gearboxes and clutches from both engines. But when I looked at the flywheels, it appears that the 6 bolt PDC is not the same on
the SOHC (about 65mm) and the DOHC (about 70mm). Not only that removing the flywheels look to be a big pain because of the tightening torque of these
6 bolts, but obviously, I will not be able to fit the flywheel of the SOHC on the DOHC.
The good news is that both clutches are the same, and as I bought a brand new one for the SOHC+type9, I know it will fit the DOHC's flywheel
too.
My options now are to have the DOHC's flywheel machined and balance by a local machine shop, or use a longer clutch bell housing, I've
been told the bell housing fitted on 1,8D are a bit longer and will fit the thick fly wheel of the DOHC.
What do you think about these options?
Thank you.
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alladdin
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| posted on 28/12/12 at 09:19 PM |
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lots of info on fitting 16v rs2000 head to 2.3 motor and going rwd on a type 9 in this thread.
http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?158806-MK1-escort-van-with-mexico-running-gear/page4
helpfull guy as well if you need advice 
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voucht
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| posted on 29/12/12 at 04:23 PM |
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Hello again,
I could fir the Type 9 gearbox on the DOHC today, and yes, the fly wheel definitely needs to be machined, as when the bell housing is tightened on the
DOHC, the clutch bearing is pushing on the clutch mechanism, leaving it "open". The other option would be to fit a 1.8D bell housing which
is longer (200mm instead of 175mm), but it will cost minimum £50, and I'm afraid the gearbox primary shaft will not be long enough to reach the
spigot inside the flywheel. Hummm not easy to decide. It looks to be a lot of mess for using an engine I'm not very excited about (DOHC).
So, I'm thinking again about using the Pinto.
Do you know if I can easily plug the 2.0i SOHC EFI to the engine loom of the 2.0i DOHC from the donor? And more important, can I use the ECU from the
DOHC with the SOHC ?
If it is possible, then I might stick to the SOHC.
Thank you for your answers.
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alladdin
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| posted on 29/12/12 at 04:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by voucht
Hello again,
I could fir the Type 9 gearbox on the DOHC today, and yes, the fly wheel definitely needs to be machined, as when the bell housing is tightened on the
DOHC, the clutch bearing is pushing on the clutch mechanism, leaving it "open".
.
possibly a different bearing will work ? did you read the thread ? he modded flywheel for weight only. he has also mentioned fitting a pinto
flywheel but you say it doesnt fit ?
if you dont want to fit the i4 (as it sounds) then forget it.
pinto will be easy to fit but sounds like you want to make it very complicated 
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voucht
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| posted on 29/12/12 at 05:10 PM |
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Thank you for your reply. Yes, I've read the thread, and he definitely machined the flywheel on the thickness too, it looks way thinner than
mine.
I will look for a thinner bearing, that would be an easy solution if such a bearing exists, thank you for the tip.
I don't want to make it complicated, but it is complicated (see my first post) as I have an hybrid set-up (DOHC/MT75 donor with a chassis built
for a Pinto/Type9)
Pinto might not be such an easy fit for me, considering that I don't know how easy/difficult it will be to plug it to the DOHC engine electric
loom (I'll use the donor loom on the Roadster), and if I can use the ECU from the DOCH with the Pinto. If at least I can use the donor ECU with
the Pinto EFI, I'll definitely go the Pinto route.
That is I what I need to figure out now, so if anyone of you guys know anything about that, please tell me.
Thank you very much.
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renetom
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| posted on 29/12/12 at 05:27 PM |
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engine
Sell all the engines & gearboxes
Get a bike engine.
problems solved
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alladdin
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| posted on 29/12/12 at 05:32 PM |
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ref the dohc, he didnt machine the clutch or crank face, i will ask him for you
heres the info, he used an rs2000 fwd 16v f/w
"mk5 rs2k flywheel and clutch. And a scorpio auto starter if using the steel/cast bellhousing and a retro ford hydraulic clutch kit spaced out
around 6mm"
ref pinto . why not advertise in uk for a pinto efi loom and ecu
[Edited on 29/12/12 by alladdin]
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voucht
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| posted on 31/12/12 at 12:57 PM |
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Just the last update about my problem.
- I try to swap the fly wheel of the DOHC and the fly wheel of the Pinto (SOHC). It is not possible. Not only that the the pitch circle diameters are
different, but also the DOHC fly wheel has an offset part which stop it to touch the engine block, and on the Pinto, the offset is on the crank so the
fly wheel is 'flat" and would touch the DOHC block even though it was re-drilled with the same bolt pattern and PCD to be used on the
DOHC.
- I can't find a thinner release bearing on internet, so the only solution for me if I want to fit the Type 9 on the DOHC is definitely to get
the the fly wheel machined.
- But the starter fitted on the Type 9 bell housing fits perfectly with the fly wheel of the DOHC, which is rather a good news
So, here are my different options:
- installing the Pinto EFI (SOHC) with type 9 gearbox.
Upside: that they will fit straightly into the chassis with no other modifs. Downside: I need an ECU, the engine wiring loom and ignition elements,
which are not easy to find, especially the wiring loom. BTW, I want tot keep the injection for complying with emission regulations.
- installing the DOHC with the MT75 gearbox. Upside: I've got all the wiring looms, ECU, ignition elements, speedometer cable, so it will be
"plug and play". Downside: 1) the transmissions tunnel of the chassis needs to be modified. 2) the lower part of the MT75 will need to me
ground off or machined (at least 25mm) for ground clearance. 3) I can't shorten the aluminium oil sump of the DOHC all by myself because I
can't weld aluminium at home.
- installing the DOHC with the Type 9 Gerabox. Upside is same as above, plus I don't need to modify the transmission tune + I don't need
to grind off or machine the lower part of the gear box. Downside: 1) I need to have the fly wheel machined in a machine shop, 2) same problem with
shortening the aluminium oil sump as above.
I still have a dilemma but I have much clearer ideas of whet I can do ans what it will ask work and money wise.
So thank you very much to all of you for the answers and advices.
Sylvain
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 31/12/12 at 03:26 PM |
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in sweden ?
redblock...........!
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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voucht
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| posted on 1/1/13 at 01:18 PM |
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Yep! I'm a French guy living in Sweden building an English Roadster
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