woodster
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| posted on 8/1/14 at 10:34 PM |
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The hidden world of britains illegal immigrants bbc 2
I shouldn't watch stuff like this , Indian guy here illegally he's a drug user and a shoplifter what do we do ? Send him home ? No treat
him for a skin condition with a specialist on the nhs , he gets caught stealing from M&S we jail him and he refuses to go on a drugs course
because it would shorten his sentence and in prison he can earn £6 a day working in the kitchen, when he gets out do we send him back ? No we let him
carry on stealing  .............. Sorry for the rant
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woodster
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| posted on 8/1/14 at 10:39 PM |
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....... A Lithuanian couple both drug users, no jobs or money , do we send them home? No !!! we give them £72 a week job seekers allowance and
somewhere to live ...... Like I said I shouldn't watch stuff like this 
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AdrianH
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| posted on 8/1/14 at 11:18 PM |
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There was a program on last night that said the Labour Government, and the people that advised them got it wrong, instead of the 13,000 immigrants
expected initially when it all started it was over ten times that, and for each year successively. At the time even places like Germany Belgium etc
had restrictions on immigration but the UK did not.
Hope I got them numbers correct from the program.
Now you still have to put it into perspective we have probably got a lot more UK born and bread, been here for generations scroungers and the
immigrant on social will only be a few percent of the bigger picture.
Also when do we stop calling them immigrants, the generation born here, two generations etc. I think a lot is when they consider themselves as being
British.
There is I have found from many a better work ethic, many will look at staying here permanently and join in with the rest of us paying taxes, pensions
etc.
There are some that will try for all they can. Is that any worse then the 'British' that don't pay tax, work on the black market
and claim benefit, or the likes of the Googles, Starbucks, Amazons(What ever companies were in the press a few months ago) and others that allegedly
move assets around from country to country to dramatically reduce their tax bills to save billions of pounds overall.
I do have major doubts about immigration, especially when it comes to the skills shortage, we only seem to have this in my mind because we pushed away
from trades into the financial markets and IT, apprenticeships became a thing of the past, manufacturing moved out of the UK to cheaper labour
markets. We can all take responsibility for that when we buy our imported goods over goods made in the UK.
If we import the skills from abroad will we ever need to generate our own skilled people in the future, will the UK education system continue down the
drain and move us further down the league tables.
My god you got me started didn’t you?.
Adrian
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
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myke pocock
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| posted on 8/1/14 at 11:37 PM |
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There appears to be some sort of trend to slate a percentage of the the British unemployed by saying they wont do the jobs that foreign imports will
do. Thats all a load of bollocks. There are many people who are unemployed who would love a chance to do some of those jobs if they were available
where they are living. And dont anyone for Christs sake use that old Tory crap line of " well move to the places where the jobs are". We
appear to constantly put our own down as some sort of justification to open the borders up to anyone who wants to come in.
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AdrianH
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| posted on 8/1/14 at 11:42 PM |
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Strange I find the trend at the moment in the programs and press to be all against the immigrants not against the British.
There is a possible answer, pull out of the EU try and go back to the common market?
Adrian
then again that will not stop illegals from any country, being illegals the original poster was on about, but missed by me.
[Edited on 8-1-14 by AdrianH]
[Edited on 8-1-14 by AdrianH]
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
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JoelP
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 07:17 AM |
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There was also a program on last night about our very own native scum, stealing, drug taking etc, all in front of their kids. There is scum anywhere
you look, you don't need to single out immigrants!
This thread also highlights one problem with the issue, getting confused between migrant workers, illegals, and maybe asylum seekers will come up soon
too!
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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jeffw
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 09:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by myke pocock
There appears to be some sort of trend to slate a percentage of the the British unemployed by saying they wont do the jobs that foreign imports will
do. Thats all a load of bollocks. There are many people who are unemployed who would love a chance to do some of those jobs if they were available
where they are living. And dont anyone for Christs sake use that old Tory crap line of " well move to the places where the jobs are". We
appear to constantly put our own down as some sort of justification to open the borders up to anyone who wants to come in.
Yeap....lets move all the agriculture jobs (which is what lots of migrants work at) to the cities and towns with large numbers of unemployed.
I'm sure there is an issue with this idea....just can't think what it is....ummmm
Talking about 'load of bollocks' .....
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designer
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 10:11 AM |
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quote:
There was a program on last night that said the Labour Government, and the people that advised them got it wrong
The Politicians and their advisers always get it wrong. They have no need to get it right as these problems never effect them.
Once on the Political gravy train, why should you be controversial and tell the truth?
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woodster
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 10:42 AM |
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i would just like to say that i'm not against immigration but like when you used to pick football teams at school i want only the best most
skilled immigrants on our team, as for home grown scum they should be dealt with separately ... my wife and her family lived in Iran for a few years
her Dad was making plane parts he was there because they needed his skills, i'm guessing he wouldn't of got in to Iran if he'd been
a drug taking shoplifter 
[Edited on 9/1/14 by woodster]
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daviep
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 11:29 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by myke pocock
And dont anyone for Christs sake use that old Tory crap line of " well move to the places where the jobs are".
What exactly is the problem with this thinking?
I'm certainly not a tory but it does sound like good advice, there's no work in my area that pays enough to satisfy me, to begin with I
moved away to find work, now I live in my home area and work away from home.
There is a fundamental problem with the thinkng of a group of our population where they feel they are entitiled to live their lives without
responsibility for their actions. Why would anybody think it's acceptable to have a child with no prospect of being able to support them, and
thus the problem multiplies, literally.
Regards
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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jeffw
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 12:44 PM |
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+1
You need to go where the work is, which is the whole concept of a mobile workforce. It isn't 'Tory Dogma' but what has been
happening since the industrial revolution.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 01:07 PM |
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+1
The alternative, being one hell of a commute. During 17yrs in HM forces when I moved to wherever I was posted, I had the misfortune to do two years
commuting from Haxey (12 miles east of Doncaster) to Whitehall. PITA. 3hrs each way (car/train/no77bus) plus 8hrs at work leaves 10hrs at home, (sleep
for 8). Not recommended.
On leaving in '86, I went where the work was and moved wife, children, dog and cats to Essex and commuted into the City.
The above was a far cry from Lancashire (Burnley) where I grew up.
Flew the coop to Spain in 2001.
You've got to be willing to relocate, unless you're fortunate enough to live where the work is (S East?)
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swanny
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 01:30 PM |
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there is a trend to demonise sections of the community which is deeply divisive and damaging to the country. (Maggie isnt dead at all) for me it
distracts away from much more significant problems that the powers that be would rather we didnt think about. it has a strong political agenda and is
intended to mislead.
Spotted this in response to the channel 4 show Benefit street
Where's the TV show about low-paid workers struggling on in-work benefits or unemployed people desperate for work?
Where's the TV show about low paying bosses and private landlords scrounging off the welfare state with low pay and rent subsidies?
Where's the TV show about rich tax dodgers who are hiding £25 billion from the public purse while millions struggle?
Where's the TV show about £16bn of benefits unclaimed by working and unemployed people, compared to £1.2bn benefit fraud?
Most social security goes to pensioners Most working-age benefits go to working people. 6.5m people are chasing full-time work
Make everyone think unemployed people are scroungers, and let the bankers and tax-dodgers get away with it. Clever, really
As for well-off TV producers trying to further their career by turning the poor against the poor: You. Are. The. Pits.
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MikeR
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 01:38 PM |
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During the industrial revolution the populace moved from the farms into the cities as the farm work dried up and the mills had work.
During the second world war the women moved from the home to the factory or farm as that is where the work (income) was whilst men fought.
I live 2hrs from where I was brough up and am only here cause its where the work was.
Where did this idea that the work would come to you come from in the 70's?
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davidimurray
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 01:59 PM |
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Personally - my frustration is that so much is now focused on the minority that the majority has been forgotten. I have done everything the
'proper' way. Worked continuously since I was 15 (now 32), even when I was at Uni. Funded myself throuhh uni as my parents couldn't
afford to pay, leaving me with massive student loans. Finished Uni and further educated myself by getting a doctorate. Got myself a good job in
Engineering and have worked hard to progress. Did the right thing and waited until I met my Wife, got married and settled down 3 years ago. Never
commited a crime or been involved with the police in any way. Never made an insurance claim.
Been trying for a baby with no luck, NHS messed us around for 2 years until my Wife was over the age for IVF so now we have to pay for it ourselves,
with our life savings. Our Private consultant is actually a top NHS guy and he has told us what they did is wrong and has registered a complaint
against our GP. But they won't help us now.
When my father died of Cancer I sat by his bedside in a STORE ROOM as the NHS did not have any beds.
Can't afford to buy a house as need a decent deposit and house prices are through the roof.
Government continue to lower the 40% tax rate - now I pay more and more to support people who either don't want to work (UK) or benefits
tourists)
My wife works for the Council - next to no pay rises in the past 5 years and likely to loose her job in the next cuts.
Uk Government seem intent on destroying our manufacturing industry - what will I do when they achieve thier goal.
The harder I work, the more I earn the more is taken off me and the less I get back.
Not working should not be an option unless medically unfit - there should be no such thing as "Benefits" - defined as "an advantage
or profit gained from something"
Make these people work for their "benefits" - clean streets, paint fences, fill in potholes.
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Charlie_Zetec
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 02:01 PM |
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Post removed due to increasing anger levels, and extensive rant approach....
[Edited on 9/1/14 by Charlie_Zetec]
[Edited on 9/1/14 by Charlie_Zetec]
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity!
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 04:34 PM |
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I really don't think the issue is immigrants, after all most seen to be making a real go of things.
The thing that really winds most people up are the ones who are ripping us off. That however seems to be targeted at the benefits end if things.
Just think though. What would the country be like if everybody and every company paid the correct taxes with no loopholes? I suspect that firstly the
tax burden on most of us would drop by a fair margin (or maybe the govt would fritter it away, hopefully not though) and there is the real possibility
lower taxes would enable people to spend a little more, and hopefully that would help create employment.
Admittedly, all circumstantial, but I am not a fan of people blaming immigrants, most of whom nare resourceful and hardworking.
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whitestu
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 05:14 PM |
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Once illegal immigrants are here it is difficult, if they refuse to identify themselves, to deport them. Where do you deport them to?
We could tighten the borders up though so they can't get to the UK. I find the idea that people come from France to claim asylum a bit daft.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 9/1/14 at 06:14 PM |
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You always get a bad apple, but hey these workers are doing what people have always done, moved for work.
Okay you get the scrounges who move here to benefit, most just want a better life so have moved here so what's wrong with that? My grandfather
moved to Spain, they had a different name for it then, ex-patriot I wonder if the Spanish thought he was a rich git buying up the best seaside
property?
Commuting, it's only recently that I have not had to drive less than 100 miles a day, have car will travel.
I feel dreadfully sorry for the people caught in the housing trap, this week I am giving my daughter £7,500 as a deposit and spent 5 years paying for
my mother to be in a decent nursing home, sold all her property and goods to pay for that, it's the price to live in England.
Would you rather live where they came from, if you had the choice and courage would you move here from abroad dismissing the cheats?
[Edited on 9/1/14 by mark chandler]
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swanny
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| posted on 10/1/14 at 11:17 AM |
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it should come as no surprise that in a time of financial strife governments seek to blame one section of the population as a means of diverting
attention away from others, anyone remember Germany in the late 30's?
I dont like being ripped off and i agree we ought to be hounding those who rip off the country. but we ought to be targetting the worst offenders
rather than demonising some of the least able sections of society.
UK government figures for 2012 estimate benefits overpaid due to fraud is £1.2 billion and tax credit fraud is £380 million. So just under £1.6
billion in total; less than 1% of the overall benefits and tax credits expenditure and less than benefits underpaid and overpaid due to error. (Source
Citizens Advice Bureau)
In contrast HMRC reports that the corporate 'tax gap' the difference between what HMRC think they should get and what they do get stands
at around £35billion.
The figures suggest £5.1bn was lost to the Exchequer as a result of illegal evasion, £4.7bn due to criminal activity, including fraud and smuggling,
and £4bn through legal avoidance schemes. (These figures dont include the activities of amazon, starbucks etc who in HMRC eyes are doing nothing
wrong)
Given that the coporate tax gap is almost 30 times the benefit fraud numbers, i know where i think the government and the media ought to be focussing
their attention.
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Peteff
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| posted on 10/1/14 at 11:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by swanny
it should come as no surprise that in a time of financial strife governments seek to blame one section of the population as a means of diverting
attention away from others, anyone remember Germany in the late 30's?
I doubt if anyone on here is that old. The Government daren't upset the corporate sector or they could lose their major source of income if they
take their business elsewhere. Better to keep them here and get something off them than than have them leave and not have a chance of getting
anything. The government is trying to turn the country into a financial institution and service industry base and not interested in industry or dole
queues, they will eventually find a way to avoid paying benefits and getting everybody doing part time work in McD or BK or looking after your parents
in a granny farm while they take all they tried to save to pass on.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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D Beddows
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| posted on 11/1/14 at 12:08 AM |
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The thing I find MOST annoying about a lot of younger British people is their reluctance to work - especially if someone tells them what to do and
when; "yeah, no but he said that I had to - but she didn't - how bad is that, so I said .........." a transcript of a LOT of my 18
year old stepdaughters conversations, who managed to get out of school with NO GCSEs ("how much revision can you do?" apparently- a damn
site more it would seem) and she wonders why she has been sacked from 4 jobs in the past year.
I took voluntary redundancy just before Christmas and tbh was looking forward to a month off BUT a contract job came up that a graduate had decided
he couldn't be arsed turning up for so guess who's doing it now? You CAN'T turn down money or a job if it's offered and
you're doing nothing else, and if the jobs a bit poo just get on with it, it may well lead somewhere better than if you lie in bed until 3pm
everyday - but try telling young people that....
We have 2 Polish families living one door down - they work their arses off unlike a lot of other British people in the street... dunno
[Edited on 11/1/14 by D Beddows]
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