Ugg10
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| posted on 31/3/14 at 08:43 AM |
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Puma 1.7 Zetec SE Info please
I'm looking at using a 1.7 Puma Zetec SE (Sigma) engine with a type 9 gearbox and wondered if anyone has the following info as I know there are
a few people out there suing this engine -
1) How many wires are connected to the VCT solenoid ?
2) Anyone mapped this engine for PWM control over the VCT and willing to share the map ? (I know it can be used like a VTEC but PWM would be nice, if
complicated to map, just need a starting point)
3) I know the spiggot socket in the end of the crank is smaller than the normal ford (17mm vx 21mm IIRC?) so anyone got any recommnedations for
getting the Gearbox nose machined (Sussex/Hampshire would be great) - do I need to remove the main gearbox shaft to have this done ?
4) What clutch (friction and pressure plate) do I need to use ?
Many thanks in advance.
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Jenko
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| posted on 31/3/14 at 01:04 PM |
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As my current build is a rear mount transverse, I can't help with questions 3 & 4. But I'll have a pop at 1 & 2:
1) How many wires are connected to the VCT solenoid ?
The VCT is 2 wire connection - Usual operation is via PWM. But being two wires can be turned on and off.
2) Anyone mapped this engine for PWM control over the VCT and willing to share the map ? (I know it can be used like a VTEC but PWM would be nice, if
complicated to map, just need a starting point).
See this thread for a whole load of info on mapping:
Click
What ECU are you using, are you planning on modifying the engine?.
I'm currently installing one of these into a J15 build, and using omex for on / off - There are shed loads of comments about this method, some
saying it's no good, etc, but I prefere to give it a try and make my own conclusions (they could of course be correct).
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Ugg10
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| posted on 31/3/14 at 01:15 PM |
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Jenko
Many thanks, much appreciated. The plan (currently) is to run the engine internals/cam as standard with bike TB's (Triumph 955i, should just
bolt on with an adaptor plate, fingers crossed), custom tubular exhaust and a Canems ECU which can do either vvct on/off or PWM. Similar to you
I'll probably start with on/off (1500/5000rpm is quoted else where) to get it going and then see where it goes.
A supplimentary question - do you know what the max flow rate is of the injctors (or HP limit I guess), if not a part number that I can look up the
details. I have the option of using the OEM ones or fitting vauxhall v6 injectors (203 l/min) in the TBs.
Cheers
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Jenko
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| posted on 31/3/14 at 01:39 PM |
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If you are going down the route of Bike TB's then would suggest you have a good read of my blog here:
CLick
The alternator position is a pain in the wotsit, and makes the inlet manifold a real pig to make....but, when done is good :-)
re the injector flow rate - if they are the green ones then they are the same that is used in the racing puma, which is chucks out 155bhp...i.e. for a
standard engine, they will be absolutly fine. I opted to stay with the standard injectors, with the option later of using the Bike TB's
injectors (probably wont need it though).
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Ugg10
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| posted on 31/3/14 at 01:56 PM |
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Thanks for the additional info on the injectors.
I had read about the alternator. and I should have space to move it if necessary and I also have a very small daewoo alternator that may do the jon
(read the 1.25l is smaller?). The triumph TBs are round inlet and oval utlet and happen to be almost the same dimensions (within a millimeter or two,
including spacing) as the engine in let ports (bonus) these may be quite a bit shorter than your set up (good or bad ?). So with a flat connecting
plate they should go on almost like direct to head versions. Once I get the engine I can have a play.
I'll have a read of the blog when I get home from work.
For info - the engine is going into a ford anglia 105e but I have previously built a fisher fury with a 2.0l zetec so a lurker on here for a while.
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Jenko
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| posted on 31/3/14 at 02:48 PM |
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The alternator is had fixed in the puma engine - i.e. it does not adjust, the belt tension is done via the sprung loaded tensioner on the exhaust side
of the engine. it could be moved, but you would probably need to hunt down a different sized belt, but due to the location of the cam belt cover, and
water pump, moving it is limited......All good engineering challenges though :-)
a stupid question...is the triumph 955i a tripple?.....At which point you would be 1 TB down.
Engine should work will in the anglia.....nice light weight. I've no idea on bhp though, my guess for mine (standard engine on TB's /
decent exhaust and omex would be between 130 bhp and 140 bhp - ultimately a ford racing puma engine would be fantastic....155bhp out of the bag, and
if you grab the gear box too, and lsd to boot :-)
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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monkeyarms
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| posted on 31/3/14 at 02:53 PM |
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quote:
with bike TB's (Triumph 955i, should just bolt on
Are they the 3 cylinder engine, are you going to cut 2 sets of TBs up?
Sounds interesting 
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Ugg10
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| posted on 31/3/14 at 03:05 PM |
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Your are correct the 955i is a triple but I was planning on putting two on a mazda v6 so have them already. They are basically six individual TBs so
adding them to gether to make a 4 is dead easy. If you need dimensions let me know as they are siting on my desk at the moment.
130-140bhp would be my guess at the fly wheel but could be suprised and get anywhere up to 150bhp. The traditional Zetecs (silver and black tops) seem
to add about 20% when run on TBS (136hp to 165hp) so anywhere round the 140-150hp would be great.
For pictures of the TBs have a look at this thread - http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/21/viewthread.php?tid=175336&page=2 or search KLDE
throttle bodies or Clairetoo (she has enginered a lot of these conversions, v6 mx5's and also in fisher furys).
On the KLDE v6 they make just over 200hp from 2.5l so taking 2/3rds you get 1.66l and 133hp. So your guess should be pretty close.
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beaver34
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| posted on 31/3/14 at 07:48 PM |
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i ran bodies on my 1600 sigma, have pics of the inlet setup if thats helps, modded the alternator to fit with a grinder, did not need much removing
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beaver34
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| posted on 31/3/14 at 07:49 PM |
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also i will check the spigot see if the crank is the same size as the 1.6 but if it is then you can use a Ford bearing for it ill dig out the part
number
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Ugg10
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| posted on 31/3/14 at 08:41 PM |
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Thanks, according to rwdmotorsport the 1.6 is a std 21 mm spigot socket, the 1.7 for some reason is 17mm and either needs widening, or more eadily,
the gearboc shaft needs grinding to 12mm.pics of the alternator would be great. Thanks.
http://www.rwdmotorsport.com/zetec-se-to-ford-gearbox-bellhousing.html
[Edited on 31/3/14 by Ugg10]
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melly-g
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| posted on 2/4/14 at 09:44 AM |
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black fingernail on here runs a Puma 1.7.he made his own bell housing from the FWD gearbox. I don't think he is using a spigot bearing at all!
He hasn't had any problems yet. I was thinking of using a bronze bearing turned to the correct size just for a bit of support for the input
shaft.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 2/4/14 at 12:26 PM |
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Melly-g - many thanks for the info, I'll dig out Blackfingernail info. Engine has been ordered will have a good look at both gearbox and engine
when I get it here (comes with gearbox so will look at that option). Did think about a phozzy bronze insert, will look into that as well.
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beaver34
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| posted on 2/4/14 at 06:33 PM |
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Spoke with shawspeed, it's a ball ache they machined the crank out but it's not an easy job
If I were you I would fit the 1600, no vct woes as that never works works as good on the cheaper ecus
1.6 parts are cheaper 1.7 bits are expensive as no doubt you will find out
You can stick a set of cams in the 1.6 and it does 140-150 bhp and will rev to 8k on stock internals
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Ugg10
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| posted on 2/4/14 at 09:07 PM |
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Beaver34, many thank but a day too late, already pulled the trigger on a 1.7.
Come to the conclusion it is easier to grind the gearbox shaft than bore the crank. The engine comes with everything to run it so still got the option
to run as standard or go for mapped ecu and tb's. I'm always up for a challenge, here we go again!
As for ecu, the one I am looking at will do the vtec on/off thing at certain revs or full pmw variable output, the latter oviously takes a bit more
mapping.
[Edited on 2/4/14 by Ugg10]
[Edited on 2/4/14 by Ugg10]
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beaver34
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| posted on 3/4/14 at 06:20 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10
Beaver34, many thank but a day too late, already pulled the trigger on a 1.7.
Come to the conclusion it is easier to grind the gearbox shaft than bore the crank. The engine comes with everything to run it so still got the option
to run as standard or go for mapped ecu and tb's. I'm always up for a challenge, here we go again!
As for ecu, the one I am looking at will do the vtec on/off thing at certain revs or full pmw variable output, the latter oviously takes a bit more
mapping.
[Edited on 2/4/14 by Ugg10]
[Edited on 2/4/14 by Ugg10]
thats fair enough, id still ditch the vct and stick a set of cams in there would do nearly 150bhp on shawspeed ss4 cams
i used them when my 1.6 was a n/a motor, i also had a worked head and throttle bodies and mine made 175bhp on stanadrd internals great fun in a small
car!
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Jenko
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| posted on 3/4/14 at 07:25 AM |
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The ford racing puma engine was a simple cam change, and gave 155bhp...that kept the vct. That was with the 'tuned' plenum, but I suspect
a set of TB's would be even more effective than the 'magical mystical £800' plenum.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Ugg10
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| posted on 3/4/14 at 08:12 AM |
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Cheers for the comments, all very much appreciated, must admnit I am not chasing numbers, what she gives will be what she gives !
I chose the Zetec SE for it's size/lightness over the Zetec (particularly) and Duratec which I admit would have been easier to install
(especially the Zetec). But, I have standard arches and as they are original metal I do not want to change/modiy them. This therefore limits brake and
tyre choice to 5.5 rims (175 tyres I think) and 250mm brakes (approx), so anywhere between 135 and 150HP that runs smoothly and reliably would be
great. The TBs I am using are more for space/look/simplicity but should add a bit of sound to the induction as well :-)
The 1.7 was also chosen as there are not many Anglias about with that engine and I wanted to be a little unique even though it may cause a few head
scratching moments on the way.
When I get the engine and have striped off the intelt manifold/gearbox I'll post some pics of the TBs as on paper they look an almost perfect
match to the inlet ports and only need a flap plate adaptor to fit (quotes already recieved), I'll also measure up the spigot pocket and gearbox
shafts and post on here for future reference.
As for the "£800 plenum" my TBs (2 sets of 3 Triumph triple TBs) were £70 total including postage and the the plate is not a lot more, I
wil have 2 spare as well. So with air filters (possibly pit bike foam individuals to start with) the whole lot will be around £200 if I use the Puma
injectors and £250 if I use the Omega v6 injectors.
[Edited on 3/4/14 by Ugg10]
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Jenko
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| posted on 3/4/14 at 09:50 AM |
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The FRP Plenum is a nice piece of engineering, and works really well for a single butterfly set up......they are just expensive. Like you, I paid £60
for a set of GSXR TB's.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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johnH20
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| posted on 8/4/14 at 06:48 PM |
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The FRP manifold may be expensive ( if you can find one ) but it provides the option of using the Ford ECU at effectively zero cost. Any ITBs, even if
free, will trigger a stand alone ECU and mapping to suit at a cost that is almost certainly greater. I know what I am doing - thanks to Big Wassa ,
Black Fingernail and others who have shown the way.
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Jenko
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| posted on 8/4/14 at 08:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by johnH20
The FRP manifold may be expensive ( if you can find one ) but it provides the option of using the Ford ECU at effectively zero cost. Any ITBs, even if
free, will trigger a stand alone ECU and mapping to suit at a cost that is almost certainly greater. I know what I am doing - thanks to Big Wassa ,
Black Fingernail and others who have shown the way.
Good point.....But I assumed the original poster was going to use an after market ECU.
As mentioned, not bashing them, cracking piece of engineering.......just very expensive....a bit like the ford motorsport alloy rocker covers for the
CVH ( that I had on my last car).
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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