laptoprob
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 posted on 31/1/15 at 11:20 AM |
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Innovate LC1 wideband
hi all,
just purchased a secondhand one of the above. Whats the thoughts or personal reviews on these?
Ive researched it and some bad comments from the USA but some counter it saying they've always been great.
Dont fancy wasting my time and wiring it all in to be disappointed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajlF4nWJtGA
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dave_424
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| posted on 31/1/15 at 12:05 PM |
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I believe they are considered the go to wideband for most people, definitely a good product and should not disappoint. I have their MTX-L wideband and
couldn't be happier, if you get other gauged in their ecosystem they all daisy chain together and you can datalog all of them with the included
software
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 31/1/15 at 01:45 PM |
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I've had great results from mine, run it permanently installed in a tin-top for ~30K miles. Sensor recently failed but that's not
surprising (I had a blown ring, was chucking a rich mixture out continuously and poisoned it).
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laptoprob
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| posted on 31/1/15 at 02:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
I've had great results from mine, run it permanently installed in a tin-top for ~30K miles. Sensor recently failed but that's not
surprising (I had a blown ring, was chucking a rich mixture out continuously and poisoned it).
Interesting. How did you know it had failed? By the gauge i guess?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajlF4nWJtGA
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davidimurray
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| posted on 31/1/15 at 03:02 PM |
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I read various reviews of the innovate kit and picked up the comments of some people complaining about reliability so decided to go down the AEM route
- http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=products/gauges/wideband-uego-air-fuel-gauges/digital-wideband-uego-afr-gauge
Been great the past couple of years and bought as a tuning aid I've kept it on the car permanently.
Gallery 1 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.116893465324.130778.601005324
Gallery 2 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.245243755324.181913.601005324&l=a9831a9319
Gallery 3 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.440671625324.232627.601005324&l=3f0d42c523
Gallery 4 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.490098255324.297598.601005324&l=efb083b7df
Gallery 5 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150244028550325.366987.601005324&l=583fd5cd3a
Gallery 6 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150550640070325.430417.601005324&type=3&l=fe779b358c
Duratec Engine Swap https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f " target="_blank"> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 31/1/15 at 03:06 PM |
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My innovate lc-1 has been fine had it on the xe and now of the turbo. Right next to it in fact.
Connected to Ecu and gauge.
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
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ashg
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| posted on 31/1/15 at 05:04 PM |
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i have had an lc-1 for 4 years and its been perfect. also have an lc-2 and thats always been perfect too. they only fek up when people dont read the
manual and get the grounding wrong.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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obfripper
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| posted on 31/1/15 at 08:33 PM |
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Mine has been largely fine for about 7-8 years.
It does occasionally throw a heater calibration error after a hot stop 30 min wait and re-start, but that clears with another stop and restart, so
having the status led visible is a good idea to catch any errors, as the error output voltage stays at 2.5v (=afr14.7/1) while your ecu could be
wanting 12.5/1 causing incorrect fuelling.
It does not work with german manafactured sensors , only usa manafactured ones, as it does not use the sensor in the same way as other wideband
controllers or manafacturers standard systems.
I had the fun of finding this out when i bought just the controller and could not calibrate a genuine vw sensor or a genuine bosch sensor reliably,
and had to buy one from the us that was by part number identical but did work fine.
I think http://www.oxygensensor.net/bosch_o2/17014.php was the correct one at the time, i don't know if that is still the case.
If you're using it with an older megasquirt with the 0-5v output, you may need to swap the zener diode on the input as it clips the input
voltage above 4v, making lean cruise harder to map.
You may want to recalibrate the sensor periodically to maintain accuracy, but i have not personally had any noticable drift on lambda when checking
closed loop idle on a gas tester.
Remove the sensor if you are going to use the car without powering up the controller/sensor, otherwise it will clog up the sensor internals with
soot.
Dave
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coozer
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| posted on 31/1/15 at 08:41 PM |
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I used one ok but could never connect to it with me lappy.
Going for a AEM next.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 31/1/15 at 09:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by laptoprob
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
I've had great results from mine, run it permanently installed in a tin-top for ~30K miles. Sensor recently failed but that's not
surprising (I had a blown ring, was chucking a rich mixture out continuously and poisoned it).
Interesting. How did you know it had failed? By the gauge i guess?
LED flashes error codes!
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dave_424
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| posted on 31/1/15 at 11:49 PM |
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Not tried the laptop data logging but going to be using mine with an oil pressure, oil temp, boost and shift light (rpm input) so can log oil temp,
oil pressure, boost, air fuel ratio and rpm all together which I think will be a great help
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froggy
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| posted on 31/1/15 at 11:55 PM |
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One slight advantage is the lc1 uses the same connector that the Bosch uego sensor uses on oe cars where the aem plug is specific so the sensors are
more expensive .
[IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/froggy_0[IMG]
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laptoprob
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| posted on 1/2/15 at 09:18 AM |
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Some great info here guys, many thanks for the responses.
Its interesting that i also posted this on the Westfield forum and had a very technical administrator tell me that he wouldn't dare run it
closed loop on my freshly mapped engine as it possibly could give a false figure to the ecu at some point and end up in tears on the track.He told me
to go gauge only and no bother with the ecu at all!
My mapper gave the advice that he would probably run the gauge and keep it active on only part of the throttle.
Its a pity there isn't more confidence as I'd love to think i could run it closed and let it give all the feedback it needs without the
worry.
Coyote /Ben /obfripper....are these being run fully closed on the setups you speak of?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajlF4nWJtGA
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Oddified
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| posted on 1/2/15 at 10:43 AM |
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The position of the lambda sensor is important to avoid errors and for the life span. A wideband with logging for at least throttle position/map and
rpm is invaluable for doing your own mapping or tweaking.
When i've connected mine to the ecu to do 'self mapping' as such it's fine for part throttle/cruising but not very good for
full throttle/revs. Light throttle/cruising gives the ecu lots of data to get a good average and fine tune the fuel map, stamping on the throttle/high
revs doesn't and if there's any transient fueling such as acceleration fuel then that makes them chase themselves in circles. I have mine
in the car all the time, but i don't have it connected to the ecu.
I have the older LM1 though, the LC1 might be better i don't know.
Ian
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laptoprob
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| posted on 1/2/15 at 11:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
The position of the lambda sensor is important to avoid errors and for the life span. A wideband with logging for at least throttle position/map and
rpm is invaluable for doing your own mapping or tweaking.
When i've connected mine to the ecu to do 'self mapping' as such it's fine for part throttle/cruising but not very good for
full throttle/revs. Light throttle/cruising gives the ecu lots of data to get a good average and fine tune the fuel map, stamping on the throttle/high
revs doesn't and if there's any transient fueling such as acceleration fuel then that makes them chase themselves in circles. I have mine
in the car all the time, but i don't have it connected to the ecu.
I have the older LM1 though, the LC1 might be better i don't know.
Ian
I think this is what I'm heading for Ian. Have the gauge and run on part (3/4 maybe) throttle max. Interesting point about the LM1/ecu chasing
its arse, these are the things i fear so its good to have this feedback. Thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajlF4nWJtGA
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 1/2/15 at 11:28 PM |
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Guys, even OEMs don't run closed loop at full throttle even with multiple O2 feedback. I used it to log and tune my 2 litre turbo perfectly
well. but it only held controller authority <75% throttle and <60% RPM, after that I relied on the tune I'd developed to run open loop
(with some error margin).
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dave_424
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| posted on 1/2/15 at 11:39 PM |
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I thought I read that the vag 1.8 turbo engines that has the maestro 7 ecu ran closed loop at full load in boost
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obfripper
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| posted on 2/2/15 at 03:44 PM |
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I am running closed loop, but only allowing 10% adjustment to the base map, so if if throws an error or a misfire causes a lean reading, it does not
get out of hand.
The lc-1 is fast enough for you to tune individual cylinders upto about 2000 rpm, if your ecu is fast enough to interpret the data and able to sync to
the pulse from each cylinder.
The megasquirt i have is not fast enough for this, so i have set 1/12sec smoothed output on the lc-1, which gives a reasonable fueling control
comprimise.
You can however still see the full speed readings in logworks, meaning you can balance your throttle bodies using the afr readings in logworks with
good accuracy.
I can't remember my exact setup, but iirc i have megasquirt configured to be open loop during throttle application to a steady throttle state,
but in closed loop when held at steady state.
It is about 6-7 years since i last altered any mapping, the only thing that i have never got spot on is the cold warmup fuelling, i think having the
injectors right close to the itb's does not help this though.
Dave
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laptoprob
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| posted on 3/2/15 at 07:56 AM |
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Thanks Dave, interesting read.
I,ve decided to run open upto 3/4 throttle and see how i go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajlF4nWJtGA
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 3/2/15 at 08:29 AM |
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Thats what mine does Rob, it really only uses it for cruising and up to 75% throttle.
Found it really helped with fuel economy for cruising and it helps keep an eye out for lean spots with the turbo.
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
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