stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 11/12/04 at 07:19 PM |
|
|
dean
ive actually got a couple of air pistols - i recon that they would be pretty hard pushed to kill.
can still be used for target practice.
its not necessary to have a gun thats capable of lethal force for target practice.
at the end of the day, is any sport worth the deaths of 1000s of people a year, if thats the only justification for guns.
just cos drug dealers have guns, doesnt mean that you or I need them too.
atb
steve
|
|
|
|
|
marcyboy
|
| posted on 11/12/04 at 09:43 PM |
|
|
as a fullbore shooter, you will find most gunshot deaths in the uk are caused by blackmarket handguns.
but the government are in discussion to stop certain certificated calibres, but surely would'nt the general public feel safer that the illegal
gun trade is being dealt with.
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 11/12/04 at 09:50 PM |
|
|
Too busy 'earning' revenue from motorists
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
DEAN C.
|
| posted on 12/12/04 at 03:07 PM |
|
|
Stephen, with all due respect,what I was trying to get across is that a lot of the laws brought in through certain incidents,have probably increased
the chances of guns falling into the wrong hands.
I am actually in favour of licensing all guns,including air rifles,of which I have three pre-charged air rifles (field target and Hunting) as well as
having been a keen clay and game shooter for the last 25 years using most calibres of shotguns.
Guns are not toys and I wouldn't fancy being shot with even a 12ft/lbs legal limit air rifle,as they have been known to kill at close range.
DEAN....
Once I've finished a project why do I start another?
|
|
|
Crazy Jay
|
| posted on 12/12/04 at 04:22 PM |
|
|
In the USA there are approximately 30000 gun related deaths per year
In UK there are approximately 100
Population of USA is wot? 300 000 000?
The population of UK is 60 000 000
Therefore the USA which has a population 5 times greater than UK has 300 times more gun related deaths??
And altho only briefly finding out some facts, i didnt find any articles saying that the UK has an increased number of deaths due to alternative
weapons such as pencils 
(Just because i am bored and tryin to put off washing the cars )
(p.s. facts are fairly accurate. wouldn't bet my balls on them tho)
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 12/12/04 at 06:15 PM |
|
|
can you explain to me how banning guns makes them fall into the wrong hands?
If laws, such as the 'if you are caught with a gun, you automatically get 5 years' come into play, then its surely easier to implement if
all guns were banned. Then, simple posession of a gun in itself gets you off the streets for 5 years.
I cant see how making guns unavailable to the general public makes them so much more availble to criminals.???
I also dont have any problem with guns being used for sporting purposes in controlled situations within gun clubs or controlled hunting areas. I can
see a justification in the usa in certain circumstances - it would be useful if you had a gun when a bear is chasing after you in the woods. In the UK
we dont have such a need.
atb
steve
quote:
Originally posted by DEAN C.
Stephen, with all due respect,what I was trying to get across is that a lot of the laws brought in through certain incidents,have probably increased
the chances of guns falling into the wrong hands.
I am actually in favour of licensing all guns,including air rifles,of which I have three pre-charged air rifles (field target and Hunting) as well as
having been a keen clay and game shooter for the last 25 years using most calibres of shotguns.
Guns are not toys and I wouldn't fancy being shot with even a 12ft/lbs legal limit air rifle,as they have been known to kill at close range.
DEAN....
[Edited on 12/12/04 by stephen_gusterson]
|
|
|
marcyboy
|
| posted on 12/12/04 at 07:48 PM |
|
|
a while back i read a few articles about illegal handguns in london in the early nineties you could buy a 9mm pistol on the blackmarket for £500, but
the price in 2003 was down to as low as £200 for the same item, apparantly due to an influx of east european weapons, so someone must be bringing them
in...
|
|
|
Cita
|
| posted on 12/12/04 at 09:11 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
I cant see how making guns unavailable to the general public makes them so much more availble to criminals.???
Guns are big buisiness Stephen and the makers will bring them on the market either in a more or less controled way with laws,or in the on-controled
way via the underground circuit.
The underground circuit is probably the most lucrative way of "earning" money with the sale of guns.
A law that will give one 5 or even ten years of jail when they caught him make the owner more willing to use that gun as most of the time the most
prescious thing they can loose is their freedom to do their criminal activity's.
It's very sad but that's the way it is Stephen.
atb
steve
quote:
Originally posted by DEAN C.
Stephen, with all due respect,what I was trying to get across is that a lot of the laws brought in through certain incidents,have probably increased
the chances of guns falling into the wrong hands.
I am actually in favour of licensing all guns,including air rifles,of which I have three pre-charged air rifles (field target and Hunting) as well as
having been a keen clay and game shooter for the last 25 years using most calibres of shotguns.
Guns are not toys and I wouldn't fancy being shot with even a 12ft/lbs legal limit air rifle,as they have been known to kill at close range.
DEAN....
[Edited on 12/12/04 by stephen_gusterson]
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 12/12/04 at 10:25 PM |
|
|
cita
are you saying that you think gun manufacturers will supply guns - knowingly - for illegal sale in the uk?
atb
steve
|
|
|
Cita
|
| posted on 13/12/04 at 01:06 PM |
|
|
If not so Stephen than the only illegal guns would be those who have been stolen from the factory-police stations-military etc... and that,i'm
afraid ,are'nt many.
The factory will not sell directly to the underground but as long as all the official paperwork is legal,not too many questions will be asked,not
towards the dealers or places of destiny.
|
|
|
James
|
| posted on 13/12/04 at 02:15 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by marcyboy
a while back i read a few articles about illegal handguns in london in the early nineties you could buy a 9mm pistol on the blackmarket for £500, but
the price in 2003 was down to as low as £200 for the same item, apparantly due to an influx of east european weapons, so someone must be bringing them
in...
quote:
Originally posted by Cita
If not so Stephen than the only illegal guns would be those who have been stolen from the factory-police stations-military etc... and that,i'm
afraid ,are'nt many.
The factory will not sell directly to the underground but as long as all the official paperwork is legal,not too many questions will be asked,not
towards the dealers or places of destiny.
I gather from a program on BBC that a lot are coming in from Northern Ireland.
Thanks to the peace process a lot of paramilitaries no longer need their weapons so they're ending up in gangland here.
And we all know from where the IRA (or do I mean Sinn Fein! ) was able to do a lot of fund-raising to afford them in the first place! 
James
[Edited on 13/12/04 by James]
|
|
|
timf
|
| posted on 13/12/04 at 02:53 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by James
quote:
Originally posted by marcyboy
a while back i read a few articles about illegal handguns in london in the early nineties you could buy a 9mm pistol on the blackmarket for £500, but
the price in 2003 was down to as low as £200 for the same item, apparantly due to an influx of east european weapons, so someone must be bringing them
in...
quote:
Originally posted by Cita
If not so Stephen than the only illegal guns would be those who have been stolen from the factory-police stations-military etc... and that,i'm
afraid ,are'nt many.
The factory will not sell directly to the underground but as long as all the official paperwork is legal,not too many questions will be asked,not
towards the dealers or places of destiny.
I gather from a program on BBC that a lot are coming in from Northern Ireland.
Thanks to the peace process a lot of paramilitaries no longer need their weapons so they're ending up in gangland here.
And we all know from where the IRA (or do I mean Sinn Fein! ) was able to do a lot of fund-raising to afford them in the first place!
James
[Edited on 13/12/04 by James]
not to mention the fact they say they cant supply photographic evidence they were destroyed
|
|
|
marcyboy
|
| posted on 13/12/04 at 03:13 PM |
|
|
well i don't thinkthey need to sell them on the black market to raise funds..... they all got buried incase things went tits up again ,
after all there are plenty of unused .303's from way back and plenty of ammo for them too, all wrapped in muslin are fully greased up, weapon
stores don't you just love'em
[Edited on 13/12/04 by marcyboy]
|
|
|
Cita
|
| posted on 13/12/04 at 03:26 PM |
|
|
I gather from a program on BBC that a lot are coming in from Northern Ireland.
Thanks to the peace process a lot of paramilitaries no longer need their weapons so they're ending up in gangland here.
And we all know from where the IRA (or do I mean Sinn Fein! ) was able to do a lot of fund-raising to afford them in the first place!
James
[Edited on 13/12/04 by James]
Do you realy think that the majority of handguns,circulating in the underground, comes from the IRA or UD militant?
Perhaps it's possible that they've dumped a lot of overstock on the market but dont think for a moment that there is one single militant
less with a gun.
Why would they do that (handling in their gun) running the risk to be registered and losing a tool that can save their life.
The funding of the IRA is something like the Marshall plan of WWII.
Give a lot of money to somebody who need's it so he can buy stuff from him who gave the money in the first place
[Edited on 13/12/04 by Cita]
|
|
|
mackie
|
| posted on 13/12/04 at 06:00 PM |
|
|
I seem to recall Mark Thomas doing a rather scary expose on the internation gun trade by securing a deal for not only several hundred MP5 submachine
guns but also for delivery to an embargoed nation (Zimbabwe I believe).
|
|
|
Cita
|
| posted on 13/12/04 at 06:21 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by mackie
I seem to recall Mark Thomas doing a rather scary expose on the internation gun trade by securing a deal for not only several hundred MP5 submachine
guns but also for delivery to an embargoed nation (Zimbabwe I believe).
Irangate style practise was not invented by Ollie North and it certainly hasn't ended with him
|
|
|
krlthms
|
| posted on 24/12/04 at 12:54 AM |
|
|
Sad as this news maybe, but could you imagine the mayhem this guy would have done, in the ~ 4 sq. miles he roamed in, for more than an hour, in
central London, in rush hour, if he had had a gun?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,2763,1379194,00.html
Guns should be banned, absolutely, no exceptions or buts.
|
|
|
andkilde
|
| posted on 24/12/04 at 03:44 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson I can see a justification in the usa in certain circumstances - it would be useful if you had a
gun when a bear is chasing after you in the woods. In the UK we dont have such a need.
LOL...
You've been watching too much television Stephen.
Bears...
ROFL, even in the somewhat "wilder" country of Canada we live in cities for the most part and bears usually run away from people -- if you
are lucky enough to ever see one.
Cheers, Ted
|
|
|
Cita
|
| posted on 24/12/04 at 06:13 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by krlthms
Sad as this news maybe, but could you imagine the mayhem this guy would have done, in the ~ 4 sq. miles he roamed in, for more than an hour, in
central London, in rush hour, if he had had a gun?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,2763,1379194,00.html
Guns should be banned, absolutely, no exceptions or buts.
If one of the victims had a gun the raid might have stopped there?
Guns shouild be banned?
Nobody makes you buy or own one.
Criminals will love to hear that!
The criminals will love to hear this.
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 24/12/04 at 08:45 PM |
|
|
I didnt even mention the movie 'Deliverance' did I 
that was filmed in wisconsin - ive been there about 8 times. the people are so overweight there that if you ran away, they would never catch you.
would have been a very short move 
atb
steve
quote:
Originally posted by andkilde
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson I can see a justification in the usa in certain circumstances - it would be useful if you had a
gun when a bear is chasing after you in the woods. In the UK we dont have such a need.
LOL...
You've been watching too much television Stephen.
Bears...
ROFL, even in the somewhat "wilder" country of Canada we live in cities for the most part and bears usually run away from people -- if you
are lucky enough to ever see one.
Cheers, Ted
|
|
|
krlthms
|
| posted on 24/12/04 at 09:12 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Cita
quote:
Originally posted by krlthms
Sad as this news maybe, but could you imagine the mayhem this guy would have done, in the ~ 4 sq. miles he roamed in, for more than an hour, in
central London, in rush hour, if he had had a gun?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,2763,1379194,00.html
Guns should be banned, absolutely, no exceptions or buts.
If one of the victims had a gun the raid might have stopped there?
Guns shouild be banned?
Nobody makes you buy or own one.
Criminals will love to hear that!
The criminals will love to hear this.
It is not me I am worried about, as I don't have a power complex nor homicidal tendencies, and I am not planing to become a mercenary.
Your idea is great, so we just have everyone in central London running around with loaded guns in rush hour. Brilliant, I never thought of that!
Let me know if it catches on, I will go and buy shares in Gun makers.
I don't think criminals care what I think, however I think it is clear that crime rates are unrelated to gun availability. The only think that
strictly correlates with gun availability is homicide rates. Simple, really.
|
|
|
Cita
|
| posted on 24/12/04 at 09:17 PM |
|
|
, I will go and buy shares in Gun makers.
Probably the most profitable investment you can do in the near future
|
|
|
marcyboy
|
| posted on 24/12/04 at 11:10 PM |
|
|
well i love owning firearms and enjoy shooting very much... (targets of course),
the dodgy thing is the sale of precharged
air rifles and such like....
now they can be sold to anyone at a premium though, but still deadly in the wrong hands especially when most em can be customised to higher capacity.
|
|
|
Browser
|
| posted on 26/12/04 at 10:01 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by marcyboy
well i love owning firearms and enjoy shooting very much... (targets of course),
the dodgy thing is the sale of precharged
air rifles and such like....
now they can be sold to anyone at a premium though, but still deadly in the wrong hands especially when most em can be customised to higher capacity.
OK, would you mind explaining to the owner (in this case me) of one of the aforesaid 'dodgy' precharged air rifles, exactly how they can
be turned into deadly weapons please?
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 26/12/04 at 10:38 PM |
|
|
Simple really.
quote:
OK, would you mind explaining to the owner (in this case me) of one of the aforesaid 'dodgy' precharged air rifles, exactly how
they can be turned into deadly weapons please?
Stick it in your face and pull the trigger. It will kill you. They don't need to be any more powerful.I have an antique BSA .177 air rifle which
will bury a slug 1/4" into a birch tree from 20 feet away.. Air rifles must have a muzzle velocity of no more than 12fps, air pistols, 6 fps.
Any more and they are classed as firearms and will get you locked up.
[Edited on 26/12/04 by Peteff]
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
