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Author: Subject: Estimated build costs and budget creep
cjwood23

posted on 10/5/17 at 04:53 PM Reply With Quote
Estimated build costs and budget creep

So I'm back looking at 7 type kits again as when we move house in the summer I should have more space and a bit more time for a project.

As well as going down the used route I've also looked at building one myself.

Thing is I've looked at a few kits and realised that 'Locost' isn't strictly true - which I expected, but didn't think it's be that far off!

I've looked at the following kits so far, and done a spreadsheet for each one listing parts and costs - all coming out around the £13.5k mark.....

Aries Locotec
GBS Zero
Tiger Avon

Granted I've based it on a new crated Zetec lump and an Emerald ecu. Diff and gear box I've gone cheap route (eBay or breakers) and costs for 'home refurb' with new bearing and seal kits.

Problem is I'm struggling to find cheaper alternatives to a lot of things.

The only other route is getting a running Zetec from another car and keeping standard ecu - which I think would save around £1k.

Still doesn't get it to the 'around £10k' discussion I had with the Wife....

Thing is I'm struggling to see where else I could save money. I've included £1k for IVA and DVLA costs too in the cost plan.

Any ideas where money can be saved? Alternative suppliers to Kit Spares and Rally Design?

At this cost I might as well buy an ex demo from Tiger or Aries.

I'm well aware that budgets can creep having built Mountain Bikes from scratch for several years and being distracted by latest sparkly bits.....

Thanks





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kingster996

posted on 10/5/17 at 05:44 PM Reply With Quote
Westfield Mazda SDV can come in well under £10k.

Engines are reliable and cheap if it does go pop.

Then when you want more oomph turbo it.

Or build a Zetec powered car with a pre 95 engine, then after your IVA and as funds allow put a new crate engine in. That's what I did.






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joneh

posted on 10/5/17 at 05:59 PM Reply With Quote
Buy someone else's abandoned project. You'll strip it right down to a kit anyway to check the work and save a packet.
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Nickp

posted on 10/5/17 at 06:01 PM Reply With Quote
I've built my BMW powered Haynes for about £5K all in including getting it on the road (which I nearly have!!)
I got a head start with a good price on the chassis I bought with loadsa bits (about £600 I think)
The actual build took about 18mths but I saved a load more by collecting bits (used and new) when they came up at the right price on here, ebay and offers online.
The popular (Zetec?) route might not always be the best / cheapest route. My BMW engine / box with bits added probably stood me at less than £500, needed just a few wires connecting to start it and it gives a smooth reliable 220-230BHP.
Depends how quick you need it finished tbh, I filled the gaps with other cars as I went along.


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INDY BIRD

posted on 10/5/17 at 06:02 PM Reply With Quote
Mk INDY new mx5 based car will be under 10k to build,

And turbo options available,

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cjwood23

posted on 10/5/17 at 06:47 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks chaps.
Have looked at the Mazda route - but not the Westy yet.

GBS have got a starter kit with donor pack on eBay at the moment for a decent price - has all the MX5 bits needed Inc engine, box, diff, brakes and ecu etc.

Hadn't looked at Haynes - any where that does decent chassis packages?





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Doctor Derek Doctors

posted on 10/5/17 at 06:57 PM Reply With Quote
Build a race car, more performance for less money. I can sell you the plans to do everything yourself and come in at about £5k build cost... Build two!





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Nickp

posted on 10/5/17 at 06:58 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cjwood23

Hadn't looked at Haynes - any where that does decent chassis packages?


Errr, dunno, Talon?

http://www.talonmotorfabrication.co.uk/

Personally I'd be looking at stalled projects

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furryeggs

posted on 10/5/17 at 07:06 PM Reply With Quote
My Tiger avon is sat at about £6500 with just an aeroscreen and iva costs to go (if I haven't forgotten anything)
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Bluemoon

posted on 10/5/17 at 07:44 PM Reply With Quote
Single donor car would keep the budget down, re-use as much as you can, clocks, wheels, uprights, transmission, engine, ECU, brake system etc, sell the remainder. Make as many parts as you can (Most body panels on a 7 are simple in Ali). Spend depends how much skill and time you have, and if you want any "upgrades"......

Happy with my single donor MK Indy, plenty enough fun with 93bhp, all depends on what you want.

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snapper

posted on 10/5/17 at 07:48 PM Reply With Quote
Time was a cost reducer for me, buy a bit here a bargain there, no money fabricate stuff, a bit of money comes online buy some other bits





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cjwood23

posted on 10/5/17 at 08:15 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by furryeggs
My Tiger avon is sat at about £6500 with just an aeroscreen and iva costs to go (if I haven't forgotten anything)


Bloody hell! Just looked at your build pics - that's a stunner!
How have you managed to do it for that price?





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ianhurley20

posted on 10/5/17 at 09:39 PM Reply With Quote
I think the 'buy someone else failed build' is the ideal way to go. Mine was a Sierra / MX5 hybrid build in the end and my total cost came at £3030.26p.
Yes it is a Haynes and if I were to build again the same car would be a Phil Talon MX5 car - or - I am now starting the next which will be a Midlana.
It's a simple process really. Buy a doner ( Focus ST170 say) Then buy a load of metal and glue it together with electric glue (MIG) and there you are, much less than a kit car price - and it's built to YOUR spec.
It takes a lot of bottle but why use the kit car manufacturers when you can do it all yourself with perhaps some training and practice - and patience - oh and persistence





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jps

posted on 11/5/17 at 06:30 AM Reply With Quote
I think the main offset is really: your time/skills/access to tools etc vs cost. I didn't have a welder, so that took £500. Angle grinder, drill bits, trolley jack, engine hoist, etc, etc... all added to the cost.

I could call in a few favours to get some of the materials I needed, I can also get some machining done for free when I need it. so saved/will save a few quid that way.

I picked up a donor Sierra for £380 and sold several bits (door, tailgate, trim) to recoup cash. I should get more out of it yet. the gearbox and engine will not get major rebuilds when fitted either, 60bhp will suit me for starters!

I also bought an "abandoned project" which came with extras I could sell, c. £1300 got me a rolling chassis that I kept, piles of bits I can recon and others I sold - recouping about £400 so far.

My floor panel is a salvaged piece of metal (an old pub sign). Sure, I spent a while stripping the paint from it, but it probably saved £100 or so.

There are always ways to lower cost, especially if you've considered the WHOLE cost! But recon/2nd hand vs 'new' prices is a biggie I think.

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907

posted on 11/5/17 at 07:52 AM Reply With Quote
I don't think you can count money spent on tools.
You could for instance buy a welder second hand, do the job, then sell it for what you paid for it. Cost nil.

Did my nose cone cost £50 ( materials ) or did it cost £1850 ? ( I payed £1800 for my AC/DC Dynasty, second hand )

Or since the welder has earned me £thousands over the time I've owned it does that mean that my nose has cost
a negative figure ?


Skills, that's another issue. You can learn a skill, often for no financial outlay in these days of the internet.


Paul G






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nick205

posted on 11/5/17 at 08:01 AM Reply With Quote
I built myself an MK Indy some years back (pre-kids) using a Sierra donor car. I don't know the final materials cost and due to the personal enjoyment of building I don't count my hours either. I also have the benefit of a car nut father with tools to spare, which helped keep costs down.

I sold it when kids came along. I doubt I got the material costs back for it, but the sheer pleasure of building and then driving were worth a lot more than money could buy.

Last year I was considering building another kit. Like you I weighed up the costs and ended up looking towards part built/abandoned projects. IMHO you get better value for money from them - if you take some time looking there's a good choice out there too.

The one piece of advice I'd give is not to buy something you'll end up stripping and starting again! For me I looked at one local to me which was the type of kit I was considering anyway. It also happened that I'd met the builder several times and had faith in his skills so I think it would have been a good start point for me. Sadly I'm now converting my integral garage into a bedroom (kids) so for now my building aspirations are shelved.

Best of luck in your quest and fingers crossed you end up out on the road in one!

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jps

posted on 11/5/17 at 08:20 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 907
I don't think you can count money spent on tools.
You could for instance buy a welder second hand, do the job, then sell it for what you paid for it. Cost nil.

Did my nose cone cost £50 ( materials ) or did it cost £1850 ? ( I payed £1800 for my AC/DC Dynasty, second hand )

Or since the welder has earned me £thousands over the time I've owned it does that mean that my nose has cost
a negative figure ?


Skills, that's another issue. You can learn a skill, often for no financial outlay in these days of the internet.


Paul G


Paul - I get what you're saying - and ultimately I think we're saying the same thing.

At the end of the day - I had to fork out the cash for my welder (cost) to be able to finish my chassis myself (free labour & skills). T'wife can see there's £500 less in the bank account - I now don't have that cash to spend on anything else. I haven't sold it yet - and given I expect fettling and making things to be my permanent hobby - I guess I never will sell it. If i do sell it then it's cost me whatever I loose on resale value although - let's be honest - the money would probably go back into the kit (another years insurance/set of tyres) anyway as it'll cost to run it forever...

If I were buying the welder in a 'work' context (sounds like your situation?) - I can loose the VAT, pay for it through a different account, claim it as an allowable expense against tax, etc, etc perhaps - and it's an investment that will allow me to earn money. My point above was that this seems to be one of the great ways people seem to manage to offset a cost. Like they can get their chassis sprayed at work / use the mill/lathe/etc at work / use the space at work to build their chassis./etc./etc. If they don't have free access to those things they either have to pay for access, or buy parts which are pre-made and therefore cost more than the raw materials...

PS - if i'd paid more attention to who was where I would have nipped up to Capel to ask you to do my welding :-D

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adithorp

posted on 11/5/17 at 09:23 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cjwood23

...Still doesn't get it to the 'around £10k' discussion I had with the Wife....


Thanks


Ermmm... think you'll find thats where for most folk the pork pies come in.





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loggyboy

posted on 11/5/17 at 09:39 AM Reply With Quote
My original budget for my Striker was £9800.
This was a new build with new Raw chassis kit and various parts from them totalling £5700
Additional was allowing for a crate Zetec engine running standard ECU, recon transmission.

To date I have spend 8690, and the budget has crept up to £10000, but did include upgrading from standard ECU to Weber Alpha TBs. The only major things still needed are wheels, tyres, fuel tank and the gearbox recon.
I have managed to save sourcing parts over many years waiting for bargains to crop up, but also add things that weren't in original spec like Weberk kit, Accusump, alloy hubs, ARP bolts etc. I also sourced a complete donor, which I only needed for the gearbox, but breaking it allowed me to earn money back as well as get gearbox and odds and sods for free. I don't need the donor as I want a new registration, but if for any reason that doesnt happen I have the v5 and vin etc to get a age related.

None of the above inc IVA or registration tho.





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PAUL FISHER

posted on 11/5/17 at 11:33 AM Reply With Quote
I think the new Mx5 based Mk Indy should be a good budget build, as you can now pick up a cheap Mx5 with a good strong engine and a LSD for less than £500.
And if you want more power stick a turbo on it

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dai1983

posted on 11/5/17 at 01:00 PM Reply With Quote
I've also replied to your post on PH but I'm sure the discussion will be better here:

How about looking at how much the Sylva j17 kits are. A couple of years ago a fairly comprehensive kit for the j16 was a smudge over £4K inc VAT and you took
Loads of parts from an an MG F?

Or build a locost/Haynes yourself?

2nd hand striker for less?

A mid engine car would also give more room for the OEM inlet thus negating the need for ITBs and management etc. Personally I want a full bodied and mid engines car but I've got more time than I do surplus cash. I just need to stop procrastinating and looking at other options and just do it!

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cjwood23

posted on 11/5/17 at 01:49 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dai1983
I've also replied to your post on PH but I'm sure the discussion will be better here:

How about looking at how much the Sylva j17 kits are. A couple of years ago a fairly comprehensive kit for the j16 was a smudge over £4K inc VAT and you took
Loads of parts from an an MG F?

Or build a locost/Haynes yourself?

2nd hand striker for less?

A mid engine car would also give more room for the OEM inlet thus negating the need for ITBs and management etc. Personally I want a full bodied and mid engines car but I've got more time than I do surplus cash. I just need to stop procrastinating and looking at other options and just do it!


Thanks for the reply - much appreciated.
Not too keen on the Sylva cars to be honest - was looking at a more traditional 7 type.

I discounted the idea of building my own chassis due to not being any good at sticking metal together, and would sooner have something that has at least had someone who know what they're doing weld it and check it.

Have looked at the MNR Vortx Mazda and Marc can provide a complete 'kit in a box' for £10k including refurbed donor parts.

Sourcing and stripping a donor doesn't really interest me - I prefer putting stuff together.





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furryeggs

posted on 11/5/17 at 02:15 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ianhurley20
I think the 'buy someone else failed build' is the ideal way to go. Mine was a Sierra / MX5 hybrid build in the end and my total cost came at £3030.26p.
Yes it is a Haynes and if I were to build again the same car would be a Phil Talon MX5 car - or - I am now starting the next which will be a Midlana.
It's a simple process really. Buy a doner ( Focus ST170 say) Then buy a load of metal and glue it together with electric glue (MIG) and there you are, much less than a kit car price - and it's built to YOUR spec.
It takes a lot of bottle but why use the kit car manufacturers when you can do it all yourself with perhaps some training and practice - and patience - oh and persistence


Buy sensibly, if something pops up thats cheap, buy it, even if you don't need it yet. and do as much as possible yourself. I'm lucky that i've got access to lathes and TIG welders at work. Rather than buying bits from a company I've been able to make them. The biggest saving has been the body work, £300 for a miss match 2nds, better than £1000 from tiger in an off the shelf colour. It was always going to be painted so it didn't bother me about the colour.

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AntonUK

posted on 16/5/17 at 06:50 PM Reply With Quote
I thought the unwritten rule was never to add up all the bills?





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