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Author: Subject: Is this truly the end for kit cars?
Slimy38

posted on 26/7/17 at 06:43 AM Reply With Quote
Is this truly the end for kit cars?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40723581

A complete ban on petrol and diesel cars from 2040. I know that there have been one or two electric cars, but most kit car builders probably don't have the facilities to work with hybrids or milk floats.

As ever no doubt the details will come out later, but as most low volume manufacturers are already moving I to hybrids, will we be left out in the cold?

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avagolen

posted on 26/7/17 at 06:59 AM Reply With Quote
'No new cars' so if we use 'old parts' and aim for a 'Q' plate, then that will be ok, won't it........

[Edited on 26/7/17 by avagolen]





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pekwah1

posted on 26/7/17 at 07:03 AM Reply With Quote
Yes does depend on the definition of "new".
Otherwise I guess we need to get the spammers back about and start reading up on electric motors!! In my last job I was working on 'Electric and Hybrig vehicle technology international' magazine and saw a lot of interesting stuff including electric kit cars...

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jelly head

posted on 26/7/17 at 07:06 AM Reply With Quote
What about HGVs and buses?
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Irony

posted on 26/7/17 at 07:14 AM Reply With Quote
Well I hope they plan on updating our electricity infrastructure then because when we all plug our cars in there won't be enough 'leccy' to go around.

We'll all be building electric kit cars by then anyway.

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russbost

posted on 26/7/17 at 07:18 AM Reply With Quote
I'd be prepared to bet this has not in any sensible way been thought thro', I was told some years ago that there isn't enough Lithium on the planet to power more than about 40% of the vehicles we had at that time, I don't know for sure that that's true, but it would seem quite likely, also how much is recoverable once you've used it once in a battery?

You can guarantee it will run out at some point, as will many other precious & non-precious metals, unless we stop the human population explosion, I think we'll have a lot more to worry about by 2040 than what we're powering our cars with .............





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phelpsa

posted on 26/7/17 at 07:22 AM Reply With Quote
Who to say lithium cells, or even electric cars, will be the best technology come 2040?
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cliftyhanger

posted on 26/7/17 at 07:27 AM Reply With Quote
I am betting the future is hybrid, and that it is purely petrol or diesels that will disappear.

Just think about it, all those terraced houses in the country, how are they going to charge their cars?
Plus I think (happy to be wrong) that as a country we are already marginal on electricity production. How is that going to cope with the 6pm surge when everybody gets home, plugs their car in, puts the oven on and makes a cuppa??
OK, we are all dooooomed.

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russbost

posted on 26/7/17 at 07:28 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
Who to say lithium cells, or even electric cars, will be the best technology come 2040?


But what I'm getting at has little to do with technology, it is the fact that you cannot have an ever expanding economy (& population) on a finite planet (unless you're an economist of course!) & I don't think we'll be colonising any other planets in volume anytime soon, hence why I think we may have more to worry about than kitcars & how to power them!





Furore Formula Car - the only two seater modern Formula Car lookalike. I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours. http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1

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Nickp

posted on 26/7/17 at 07:38 AM Reply With Quote
Mine already moves on the starter so is it a hybrid?
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theconrodkid

posted on 26/7/17 at 07:39 AM Reply With Quote
As others have pointed out here, there is just about electrickery now to go round,a bigger population, unable to park outside you home so no chance of charging your buggy,i think personal transport will be for the rich only, everyone else will have to take the bus.
so unless someone discovers a new power source, we are screwed.





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SJ

posted on 26/7/17 at 07:43 AM Reply With Quote
quote:

Just think about it, all those terraced houses in the country, how are they going to charge their cars?



One possible answer to that is that they won't own cars, and that car ownership will only be affordable for the very rich. The rise of electric cars will happen in tandem with autonomous cars and ultimately that could well mean the death of non-autonomous cars due to the legal, ethical and insurance issues that will arise in a mixed autonomous / non-autonomous economy.

That leaves us in a world where if you need to drive you hail an autonomous cab that takes you where you want to go.

Hope I'm wrong though.

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WallerZero

posted on 26/7/17 at 08:06 AM Reply With Quote
Wishy washy statement made to make us look like we care just like other countries banning them 20-30 years into the future. Who thought 20-30 years ago we'd be heading back to electric cars capable of 300 miles and speeds over 100mph in them?

As mentioned, there is a lot more to worry about as to what cars we'll be driving or flying

On a unrelated side note....anyone know where I can buy petrol tankers and how long petrol keeps for? Asking for a friend.....





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CosKev3

posted on 26/7/17 at 08:22 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by WallerZero
Wishy washy statement made to make us look like we care just like other countries banning them 20-30 years into the future. Who thought 20-30 years ago we'd be heading back to electric cars capable of 300 miles and speeds over 100mph in them?

As mentioned, there is a lot more to worry about as to what cars we'll be driving or flying

On a unrelated side note....anyone know where I can buy petrol tankers and how long petrol keeps for? Asking for a friend.....


Yeah mad max style world FTW

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motorcycle_mayhem

posted on 26/7/17 at 08:54 AM Reply With Quote
We'll need a few more Hinckley Point's, not just increasing the current extension cables from Norway and Denmark.

More words though, from the political class (who will be able to afford new, heavily taxed, personal transport in 2020) who brought us the Dome, HS2, IT and other fine well-managed projects. Mainly, it seems a London thing..

Working folk to be screwed again, nothing new here, move on.

Most of us that are still interested in physical things, beyond the phone screen, will be in driverless mobility scooters. Assuming, of course, there's any space left to do so, or any need to.

It'll all be virtual.

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chillis

posted on 26/7/17 at 09:20 AM Reply With Quote
Its only a ban on the sale of new Petrol and diesel cars from 2040, though some reports seem to be scaremongering it to appear as though all petrol and diesel cars will have to be scrapped by 2040.
Kit built cars based on parts from existing cars are not 'new' cars so it seems only Caterham and similar would have to worry.
The biggest problem facing petrol cars over the next 20 or so years is going to be the decline in petrol availability as by 2040 almost all cars will be electric or alternative fuel, so the availability of petrol will be much less widespread and thus more expensive.
It would seem likely that kit cars in the future will have to gravitate toward 48v electric if they are to survive.





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WallerZero

posted on 26/7/17 at 09:25 AM Reply With Quote
I'm still waiting for the Ford Nucleon to go into production





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russbost

posted on 26/7/17 at 09:49 AM Reply With Quote
Suspect this is the sort of thing we have to expect - sorry it's very American, & a few years old now, but makes a good point

Dinky Linky





Furore Formula Car - the only two seater modern Formula Car lookalike. I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours. http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1

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Ugg10

posted on 26/7/17 at 10:01 AM Reply With Quote
Great headline fodder but I suspect as soon as the Government realise how much they will loose in revenue from road tax, fuel duty, garage servicing VAT, sales of oil/plugs/filters VAT, loss of jobs in petrol/diesel engine servicing and parts production and infrastructure costs including adding 25-50% to the UK power generating capacity they may change their minds. This is obviously based on the fact that the assumed solution is fully electric drive, however this may differ if Hydrogen fuel cells are the most likely long term option.

Interestingly this is put out in the same week as news on local electricity storage from Solar/Wind on every house which I guess could be used to charge up your car.





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jeffw

posted on 26/7/17 at 10:19 AM Reply With Quote
This is likely to go hand in hand with Autonomous vehicles (as has been said) which will mean we don't own cars. This will have a knock on effect to a large number of industries from car parts/car manufacturing to insurance and car parking. Complete disruption of the current economy, no taxi drivers/van drivers/bus drivers etc etc.






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hughpinder

posted on 26/7/17 at 10:26 AM Reply With Quote
Road transport uses more energy than the total capacity of our current electric supply, so power generation and distribution capacity will have to at least double, since the grid is already >95% loaded in the winter. Even if we started now, it is unlikely we could build that much nuclear power in that time. Would probably need to make it compulsary to have charging points in all workplace/commercial parking, and parking/charging meters on all roads. Buy shares in copper cable/battery/cgarge station manufacturers now!

On the other hand I have run about 300k on LPG and that isn't petrol or diesel, so would you still be able to buy a 'petrol' car as long as it was running on LPG?
Hydrogen is possible, but I think too dangerous (we use it where I work - I would want to be too close to somewhere storing a lot of it, especially cars when they get old and not well maintained)
Methanol/alcohol could be burned directly in modified petrol engines, or in a fuel cell.

Mine is the all electric car towing a dirty great diesel generator running on red diesel!

Can't remember what the Rover that had the gas turbine used as fuel - kerosene I think, so thats ok!

ETA
A few years ago the government commissioned a report on whether renewables could provide all the UKs energy - I think they intended it to be 'electricity' which is only 28% of our total energy use. I think it was Manchester university engineering dept or somewhere like that. They looked at solar, wind, tidal, water storage in artificial lakes etc. It concluded that you basically can't do it with any single renewable source (except tidal). Wind power could produce just over 20% of our annual energy needs - but that was spacing the wind turbines at optimal spacing over the whole of the uk and as far out to sea as it was technically possible to build them, and didn't even consider how that much energy could be stored to be able to use it when you wanted it!
[Edited on 26/7/17 by hughpinder]

[Edited on 26/7/17 by hughpinder]

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JoelP

posted on 26/7/17 at 11:06 AM Reply With Quote
Great goal, probably not the best way to achieve it. Myself, id restart the fuel duty escalator, maintain subsidies on electric cars, create tax breaks for companies involved in research into these fields (energy generation, storage, transmission, driverless tech, intelligent energy usage, etc), and proper state intervention into the nation electricity market. Hinkley Point is one of the worst deals ever signed, an absolute shocker. I'm not convinced that nuclear power is the way forward (the strike price agreed will be higher than renewables in a few years time, and the clean up cost when it's decommissioned will be eye watering). Tidal power is as reliable as clockwork, can actually provide 24hr output, the concrete lasts 120 years, and there is no nuclear contamination to clean up. That, coupled with developments in high voltage dc transmission, and intelligent storage in all the cars that happen to be plugged in, is where I think the future is. Its absolutely clear to me that we cant carry on this way, but at the same time, i'm no fan of ham-fisted government intervention like outright bans.

To summarise:

-urgent and immediate scrappage scheme to get the worst diesels off the road
-gentle but relentless rises in fuel duty
-maintain ze subsidies
-get to work preparing the national grid for the changes that have been obviously approaching for a decade

and maybe most importantly, agreements across Europe to bring similar measures in across the continent. If only we were key players in a continent-wide body that could rapidly bring out harmonised regulations!





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owelly

posted on 26/7/17 at 11:19 AM Reply With Quote
I see headlines like these and immediately start looking for the 'real' stories that are being hidden....Any politicians up to no good?!





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SJ

posted on 26/7/17 at 11:27 AM Reply With Quote
quote:

Any politicians up to no good?!



That's one thing there isn't normally a shortage of!

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Mr Whippy

posted on 26/7/17 at 11:52 AM Reply With Quote
electric cars are easy to build as kit or home built cars, just not very cost effective currently when compared to an engine

I don't see why this will do the kit car industry any real harm whatsoever. Battery, controller and motor costs will plummet the more are produced....I bet by 2040 even my old deadweight brick of a landy could at last be converted effectively. Bring it on

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