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Author: Subject: CBR1000 Misfire
DANMAN

posted on 7/11/18 at 11:25 AM Reply With Quote
CBR1000 Misfire

Hi everyone,

I am having a weird issue where my engine idles ok and if you give it some revs in neutral it will rev freely to say 6k ok once but if you try to rev it again straight away it misfires and farts unless you let it settle for about thirty seconds. It sounds like a fueling issue but the fuel system seems fine.
What I have checked so far (also using the CBR1000 workshop manual):
- Fuel pump and pressure regulator are fine and within spec
- Fuel pump filter is fine as is the additional inline filter which is new and flow direction is correct
- Fuel lines are new and right size
- Tank breather is fine and not blocked
- Tested fuel flow and fuel pressure and both are within factory spec
- New MAP sensor (factory one was reading out of spec)
- New spark plugs
- New fuel
- CMP & CKP sensors tested fine and within spec
- Injectors (all 8) have been flow tested and are all fine
- No intake air leaks
- HISS is bypassed and checks ok
- Speed sensor tests fine and within spec
- Exhaust servo motor is still connected and tests fine
- ECT Sensor is fine
- IAC Sync is fine
- Vacuum lines are fine

Video of issue here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sahP59tS3VM

This stupid problem has got me stumped.





Daily Driver - Audi A4 2L Turbo Quattro
Work Horse - Falcon XR8 Ute - Now Supercharged!
Rally Beast - 1972 Ford Escort 2L
Off The Road - Locost 2L Turbo (Z1 Concept)
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AdamR20

posted on 7/11/18 at 01:01 PM Reply With Quote
What happens if you put it in gear (clutch in)? Wondering if there may be some sort of over rev protection?

AFAIK the neutral mapping is different to in-gear mapping.

[Edited on 7/11/18 by AdamR20]

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davspeed

posted on 8/11/18 at 09:33 AM Reply With Quote
It's a bit difficult to hear it properly from the clip but I have put a similar engine (2007) in my striker and don't have that problem. My problem is light throttle running is very jerky like it needs the choke on in old carbed cars, a dyno session will hopefully sort that.
How have you done your air intake as I see you have a foam filter.

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DANMAN

posted on 8/11/18 at 10:04 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AdamR20
What happens if you put it in gear (clutch in)? Wondering if there may be some sort of over rev protection?

AFAIK the neutral mapping is different to in-gear mapping.

[Edited on 7/11/18 by AdamR20]


I have tried driving it and it dies and runs like a dog once there is any load on the engine, I can move it up and down the driveway if I keep the revs under about 2500rpm but outside of that it dies like it is running out of fuel.

Interesting point though about the idle maps being different, I would like to try and get confirmation on this as the neutral wire does feed into the ECU via the clutch diode when the engine is in the bike. I bypassed the clutch diode, side stand switch, etc as they obviously weren't required but I figured the input to the ECU was only there to stop it from starting without the clutch pulled in, side stand up or the engine in neutral.

Has anyone got a car edited version of a CBR1000 wiring diagram? I just worked through the harness myself culling and bypassing the stuff that wasn't required but maybe I ar$ed something up?

[Edited on 8/11/18 by DANMAN]





Daily Driver - Audi A4 2L Turbo Quattro
Work Horse - Falcon XR8 Ute - Now Supercharged!
Rally Beast - 1972 Ford Escort 2L
Off The Road - Locost 2L Turbo (Z1 Concept)
Track Car - Stuart Taylor Blade

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DANMAN

posted on 8/11/18 at 10:20 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by davspeed
It's a bit difficult to hear it properly from the clip but I have put a similar engine (2007) in my striker and don't have that problem. My problem is light throttle running is very jerky like it needs the choke on in old carbed cars, a dyno session will hopefully sort that.
How have you done your air intake as I see you have a foam filter.


There was no way I was going to fit my engine under the bonnet with the factory air box and throttle bodies in the normal location so I have to lay them over:

https://i.imgur.com/lwGQdBq.jpg

This obviously increased the intake runner length from the tip of the trumpets to the back of the valves so to get it as close to factory as I could I had to make a new set of shorter trumpets and secondary injector bracket set up. I have kept the distance and angle of the secondary injectors from the trumpet mouths the same as factory dimensions:

https://i.imgur.com/TMLZStZ.jpg

I then built a new air box to encompass all of this with the same volume as the factory airbox (yes I sealed off the factory air box with various plates so I could fill it with water to find the total volume):

https://i.imgur.com/F9hkOF0.jpg

There are no intake air leaks anywhere that I could find.

[Edited on 8/11/18 by DANMAN]





Daily Driver - Audi A4 2L Turbo Quattro
Work Horse - Falcon XR8 Ute - Now Supercharged!
Rally Beast - 1972 Ford Escort 2L
Off The Road - Locost 2L Turbo (Z1 Concept)
Track Car - Stuart Taylor Blade

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AdamR20

posted on 8/11/18 at 10:44 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DANMAN
Interesting point though about the idle maps being different, I would like to try and get confirmation on this as the neutral wire does feed into the ECU via the clutch diode when the engine is in the bike. I bypassed the clutch diode, side stand switch, etc as they obviously weren't required but I figured the input to the ECU was only there to stop it from starting without the clutch pulled in, side stand up or the engine in neutral.

Has anyone got a car edited version of a CBR1000 wiring diagram? I just worked through the harness myself culling and bypassing the stuff that wasn't required but maybe I ar$ed something up?

[Edited on 8/11/18 by DANMAN]


I have the Woolich Racing software and there is a different neutral map (and different maps per gear and per cylinder too!).

Don't have an edited car loom but have standard Honda diagram and a 'guide' for what to chop out if any use?

[Edited on 8/11/18 by AdamR20]

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jossey

posted on 8/11/18 at 01:57 PM Reply With Quote
Crank position sensor





Thanks



David Johnson

Building my tiger avon slowly but surely.

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davspeed

posted on 8/11/18 at 03:00 PM Reply With Quote
Interesting way of doing it, I tried the original air box on my striker and it was worse than an old school hot rod with a massive blower on it so did it like in the pic below. it may not be perfect but at least I can see where i'm going.

2018092 7_152409 by david.vangils, on Flickr

[Edited on 8/11/18 by davspeed]

[Edited on 8/11/18 by davspeed]

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davspeed

posted on 8/11/18 at 03:08 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AdamR20

I have the Woolich Racing software.


[Edited on 8/11/18 by AdamR20]


How do you find the woolich racing stuff? I have only become aware of it in the last couple of weeks I have PC5 but woolich sounds more comprehensive. Are there any four wheel dynos that use it only seen bike dynos for it.

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Memphis Twin

posted on 12/2/19 at 09:46 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by davspeed
Interesting way of doing it, I tried the original air box on my striker and it was worse than an old school hot rod with a massive blower on it so did it like in the pic below. it may not be perfect but at least I can see where i'm going.

2018092 7_152409 by david.vangils, on Flickr

[Edited on 8/11/18 by davspeed]

[Edited on 8/11/18 by davspeed]



Hello Dave. I love what you've achieved with the old Striker. Look's very purposeful, and it should be an absolute weapon on track!

Cheers Chris (Matlock Bath)

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jossey

posted on 13/2/19 at 12:14 PM Reply With Quote
I had huge issues with airbox changing on mine.

Out of interest can you put the standard airbox on to test it and see how it runs?





Thanks



David Johnson

Building my tiger avon slowly but surely.

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DANMAN

posted on 18/2/19 at 10:08 AM Reply With Quote
Oki doki, so a bit of an update.

Basically to get the engine to fit under the bonnet I have had to lay the throttle bodies over on an angle (there are legalities here in Australia about things hanging out of bonnets) and went to a lot of trouble to keep the factory distance and angle relationship between the top of the trumpets and the secondary injectors the same as factory but also needed to shorten the trumpets (make new ones from scratch) so the total inlet length was as close to factory as possible due to the fact that I had increased the inlet tract. So the throttle bodies and new air box looked like this:

https://i.imgur.com/NfLgM9L.jpg

After a lot of fault finding and thinking it may have been air leaks around the intake pipes causing the issue I think the problem was actually the primary injector angle and the new intake pipes. I believe the fuel from the injectors was hitting the intake pipe walls and dribbling into the engine rather than being properly atomised.
Pulling everything apart and putting the throttle bodies directly on to the factory head mounts cleared the misfire issues when free revving so I had to figure out another way to get everything under the bonnet with the throttle bodies in their factory location (if it wasn't for the secondary injectors none of this would have been an issue).

After making a new air box, some screwing around with intake piping and a bit of mucking around on the lathe I managed to get the new setup under the bonnet but it is a bloody tight squeeze with only 3mm of clearance:

https://i.imgur.com/0m6kwQ1.jpg

Took the car for a spin yesterday and everything seems to be running fine with the exception of a far touchier throttle and a lot more engine braking than the 919 engine I had in there before.

[Edited on 18/2/19 by DANMAN]





Daily Driver - Audi A4 2L Turbo Quattro
Work Horse - Falcon XR8 Ute - Now Supercharged!
Rally Beast - 1972 Ford Escort 2L
Off The Road - Locost 2L Turbo (Z1 Concept)
Track Car - Stuart Taylor Blade

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AdamR20

posted on 19/2/19 at 07:37 AM Reply With Quote
Glad you got sorted with a nice solution, and thanks for updating the thread!

I'll definitely be keeping the standar airbox then, all that farting about seems like quite an effort

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