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Author: Subject: Can you help diagnose this noise?
smart51

posted on 17/7/19 at 03:16 PM Reply With Quote
Can you help diagnose this noise?

I've just changed the front tyres on my new(ish) tin top. It turns out it had runflats on when I bought it. It's a bit quieter now and I can hear a rumbling noise. It only happens if the steering wheel is turned right by more than about 15°. It happens whether the power is on or off. It's only really noticable above about 40 MPH but if you listen out, it is there are lower speeds. My guess is wheel bearing, but which one? Front Left?
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russbost

posted on 17/7/19 at 04:10 PM Reply With Quote
Almost certainly a wheel bearing, but if it's FWD with a one piece type bearing they were notorious for the bearing being the opposite to that which you'd expect, old school I'd say NSF, therefore it is probably OSF! Sorry if that's not much help, but listening with a stethoscope with metal "sounder" on the end or possibly a long screwdriver or similar on the hub & listen with your ear clamped to end of it may produce some rumble when someone spins the wheel - if it's any compensation they usually go for thousands of miles gradually deteriorating b4 they become obvious & dangerous





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nick205

posted on 17/7/19 at 04:22 PM Reply With Quote
I'd go for a wheel bearing as well. I'd jack the front of the car up and spin the wheels/check for play to see if you can isolate which side. If it's FWD worth checking the driveshafts for gaiter damage as well. A dry CV joint can rumble, possibly more so under cornering loads as well.

The hub nuts on the ends on the drive shafts are usually done up very tight as well. If you get as far as self repairing.



[Edited on 17/7/19 by nick205]

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miskit

posted on 17/7/19 at 05:11 PM Reply With Quote
Apart from the usual wheel rock top/bottom - apparently a bearing is much more evident if you spin it whilst jacked up and put your hand on the top of the spring you can feel it.
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gremlin1234

posted on 17/7/19 at 05:37 PM Reply With Quote
the logical, (though more expensive and time consuming) answer is to replace both front wheel bearings, they have both done the same mileage, in the same conditions, so if one has failed, its quite likely the other may do soon.
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russbost

posted on 17/7/19 at 06:35 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
the logical, (though more expensive and time consuming) answer is to replace both front wheel bearings, they have both done the same mileage, in the same conditions, so if one has failed, its quite likely the other may do soon.


Yeah, except these things never work logically - if you applied logic then obviously, in the UK, the NSF would go first as we only drive around roundabouts (& usually multi story car parks with spirals!) in a clockwise direction, plus turning right out of a junction when driving on the left puts more load on the NSF than turning left does on the OSF.

I spent 20 odd years in the motor trade & would frequently replace only one side bearing for customers (assuming we could identify the culprit), the other side might go on for another 20 or 30k miles, or frequently they sold the car within a couple of years still behaving perfectly!

Logic never really seemed to work!





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rusty nuts

posted on 17/7/19 at 07:04 PM Reply With Quote
If the car doesn’t have traction control you may be able to jack it up one side at a time, put on axle stands and “drive the car “ up to 60 mph or so , that should ?? show up which wheel bearing is causing the noise. Mind you I did that once on a Maestro , replaced the first wheel bearing which was really noisy, then replaced the second side which was just as bad, to top it off ended up replacing a rear bearing as well.
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smart51

posted on 17/7/19 at 07:27 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by miskit
Apart from the usual wheel rock top/bottom - apparently a bearing is much more evident if you spin it whilst jacked up and put your hand on the top of the spring you can feel it.


Good tip! I'll try this

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smart51

posted on 17/7/19 at 07:30 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
If it's FWD worth checking the driveshafts for gaiter damage as well.



That's what I was concerned about. It is wheel bearing or drive shaft. How do you tell?

quote:
Originally posted by nick205
The hub nuts on the ends on the drive shafts are usually done up very tight as well. If you get as far as self repairing.



I remember undoing the hub nuts on my sierra parts for the MNR. I tore up my wooden workbench trying to do it. The garage at work had steel benches bolted to the wall. With a 2m long scaffold tube over my socket breaker bar, I just managed to undo it. If it is wheel bearings, it will go to a pro to do. I know my limits.

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rusty nuts

posted on 17/7/19 at 08:00 PM Reply With Quote
What car is it, the only cars I can think of offhand that use run flats are BMWs and Mini?
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smart51

posted on 17/7/19 at 08:06 PM Reply With Quote
So what if it's not wheel bearings?

I've just jacked up the front of the car, now that the kids are in bed. There is no play in the front wheels, and no vibration.

A bit more background. The car is a Renault Zoe. It failed it's 2nd MOT last week on the front offside control arm and rear nearside wheel bearing. The front arm is all shiny and new, and so I presume is the bearing. Being electric, the car is quiet and now it has normal rubber, even more so. It could be just the very start of a problem. But if not, what else could it be?

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russbost

posted on 17/7/19 at 09:21 PM Reply With Quote
No reason at all why there would be any play in the bearing until it becomes substantially more worn, what produces the "rumble" is tiny pits in the finish on the bearing cage &/or the actual ball bearings, as I said, they will frequently go 1000's of miles b4 getting dangerous & will get REALLY noisy b4 then.

It's almost certainly a wheel bearing, from a lifetime in the trade I heard many knackered CV joints, but they grind or click, the only time I've heard anything similar to a wheel bearing that actually wasn't was from diff bearings on RWD cars, even then there were probs no more than 2 occasions vs thousands of wheel bearings - I've never experienced that on a FWD vehicle, probably because diff bearings on FWD, being located within the gearbox, are better lubricated

The fact that it's already done a rear wheel bearing (how many miles has it done) suggests weaknesses within the hub area, I assume this can't be very old (not been around that long surely) so possibly poor quality bearings on Renaults behalf?





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smart51

posted on 17/7/19 at 09:57 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
No reason at all why there would be any play in the bearing until it becomes substantially more worn, what produces the "rumble" is tiny pits in the finish on the bearing cage &/or the actual ball bearings, as I said, they will frequently go 1000's of miles b4 getting dangerous & will get REALLY noisy b4 then.

It's almost certainly a wheel bearing, from a lifetime in the trade I heard many knackered CV joints, but they grind or click, the only time I've heard anything similar to a wheel bearing that actually wasn't was from diff bearings on RWD cars, even then there were probs no more than 2 occasions vs thousands of wheel bearings - I've never experienced that on a FWD vehicle, probably because diff bearings on FWD, being located within the gearbox, are better lubricated

The fact that it's already done a rear wheel bearing (how many miles has it done) suggests weaknesses within the hub area, I assume this can't be very old (not been around that long surely) so possibly poor quality bearings on Renaults behalf?


4 years old and 27,000 miles. Since October I've had 2 A/C fixes (under warranty) and two suspension fixed (out of warranty). I'm not best pleased. Mind you, I can't say how the previous owner treated it.

Mind you, what you say makes a lot of sense. It's probably only because its an EV that it can be heard. If run flats masked the noise then an engine would too. The trouble with being an engineer and a car enthusiast is that I can spot stuff that others wouldn't notice. Ignorance is actually bliss.

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russbost

posted on 18/7/19 at 07:08 AM Reply With Quote
At 27,000 miles & 4 years old I would be writing a strong letter of complaint to Renault customer service. That is truly awful quality.

On any modern vehicle you would expect to get an absolute minimum out of any part which is not classed as a "wearing part" of 36,000 miles & even that would be very poor indeed, there are plenty of manufacturers giving 5 or even 7 years warranty & I believe all of those allow for 12,000 miles a year, hence the 7 year warranty, they would be expecting all running gear apart from brakes & possibly exhaust to last 72k miles

Yes, the fact that it is electric will make it easier to hear stuff, but even with the older cars I was used to working on, you would hear wheel bearings when not under power, so that is no excuse





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nick205

posted on 18/7/19 at 10:34 AM Reply With Quote
I'd agree 27k miles is nothing for a wheel bearing, many cars go well over 100k miles with no wheel bearing problems. Suspension bushes usually show wear/fatigue before wheel bearings.
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