sebastiaan
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| posted on 18/2/21 at 12:10 PM |
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Daily landy S3, needs to live outside
Hi gang,
I'm contemplating replacing our family Berlingo multispace van with a series 3 landy. We do around 4k miles/year with the van currently, mostly
quite local. It lives outside and the landy would need to do the same. Am I mad and will it crumble to bits in a year's time or is this a viable
proposition?
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 18/2/21 at 02:26 PM |
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Having owned and completely rebuilt 5 of the things I can confidently say that is a very very very bad idea. They are horrible to drive, incredibly
noisy, dangerous in a crash, slow as feck, drink fuel like you have a hole in the tank, rust, rot and leak like nothing else. It really is your worst
possible choice...
I still like them but will never get another. A Rav4, Jimmy, Shogun or even a Niva are vastly better vehicles to go for.
Funny enough every single person I have told Not to buy one has went off and got one anyway only to very quickly regret they didn't listen.
Funny story of the last one, was an IT guy at work. Got a heap, came over saying its got a blown head as it won't do more than 40mph! So I had a
shot and got up to 65mph and shouted at him "THIS IS WHAT THEY SOUND LIKE AT 65! YOU HAVE TO THRASH THE CRAP OUT IT!"  it was up for
sale the next week...
[Edited on 18/2/21 by Mr Whippy]
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nick205
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| posted on 18/2/21 at 03:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Having owned and completely rebuilt 5 of the things I can confidently say that is a very very very bad idea. They are horrible to drive, incredibly
noisy, dangerous in a crash, slow as feck, drink fuel like you have a hole in the tank, rust, rot and leak like nothing else. It really is your worst
possible choice...
I still like them but will never get another. A Rav4, Jimmy, Shogun or even a Niva are vastly better vehicles to go for.
Funny enough every single person I have told Not to buy one has went off and got one anyway only to very quickly regret they didn't listen.
Funny story of the last one, was an IT guy at work. Got a heap, came over saying its got a blown head as it won't do more than 40mph! So I had a
shot and got up to 65mph and shouted at him "THIS IS WHAT THEY SOUND LIKE AT 65! YOU HAVE TO THRASH THE CRAP OUT IT!" it was up for
sale the next week...
[Edited on 18/2/21 by Mr Whippy]
I've not owned a Landy so can't give any personal experience. Some of my friends have owned them (or still own them) and their experience
agrees with Mr Whippy. There's more modern and easier to own vehicles.
My parents had a Mitsubishi Shogun a few years ago. They bought it cheap (£1,500) and it ran fine. I drove it through some very muddy off road
places and never managed to get stuck either.
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jamiepearson69
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| posted on 18/2/21 at 03:33 PM |
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I would 2nd that.
I would question having a defender as a daily let alone S3. 4000 miles a year in one of them is a lot of miles, most of them wont do more than 50 mph
and it takes a fair age to get there. If you get more than 20 MPG out it, you will doing well.
Don't get me wrong, I like Land rovers, but I would never consider a pre 1998 defender or series as a daily.
Given what S3's are fetching these days, you can also get something a lot better for your money.
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 18/2/21 at 04:03 PM |
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So universally a Bad Idea...
Besides the daily use being challenging, what about the "living outside" part? Are they really as prone to dissolving as Mr whippy has
experienced? Mind you, I've got a '73 Alfa and a '68 fiat 500 so am at least familiar with the sound of rust...
Looking at this one:
https://link.marktplaats.nl/m1594564941?utm_source=android_social&utm_content=vip&utm_medium=android_social&utm_campaign=socialbutton
s
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 18/2/21 at 04:36 PM |
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what Mr whippy said, the chassis disolve like cardboard in a rainstorm and the bulkhead aint much better, patern parts are cheap and available
everyhere, that,s good as you will be needing plenty parts to keep it mobile.
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 18/2/21 at 05:22 PM |
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Ahhh my very last landy, she did come up well after a huge amount of work mind...
Nope I don't miss it one little tiny bit 
 
Description
[Edited on 18/2/21 by Mr Whippy]
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 18/2/21 at 08:03 PM |
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It'll be quite happy outside, but your problem may well be theft of it as an entirety, or theft in part. A local annual mileage of 4000 is fine,
but in colder weather you'll need a windscreen/interior preheater.
I've had 3 of the things in my lifetime, including the current one, which I've had for almost 30 years. It's a diesel, initially a
2.6 petrol, then a 2286/2.5 diseasel (not a spelling mistake) and now a 'period correct' Perkins, bought as crate engine. It's a
1967 109 (SII), the others were 88" SIII. The 88" tended to bounce quite a bit, was very short in the rear but had a bearable turning
circle. Great with a tow hook on the front bumper, for moving trailers. The 109" is none of those things, and the turning circle is of super
tanker proportions. Both cars in summer with the roof off were/are a special joy.
Brakes are interesting (especially that first stop to get the rust off the drum linings), the steering vague and the noise something else. Thing is,
there's nothing else quite like it.
Speed, well, there isn't any. Add to that a requirement to steer and stop in good time, it's pretty irrelevant. Doesn't really
bother me, bothers others, not my problem. As a 3.5T (dual use) you're limited to lower speeds. The race car/bike and a racetrack is where I get
a speed fix, the 109 is an antithesis to all that, and everything else on the road!
The SIII is a bit of a rot-box. The later steel was of questionable quality and rather thin. Lots of really dire death traps out there, masquerading
as useable vehicles. Finding one that's been looked after is key, anything galvanised (chassis, bulkhead, etc.) is a good thing, expensive if
you build it yourself..
Plenty of 'tax excepted' and MOT excepted (coil sprung, Defender vehicles with 300TDi/TD5 engines) and 'eazy fix' rubbish out
there, look at Ebay (etc.) and laugh.
I'm biased, but hell, be different. Abandon all thoughts of comfort, speed, bluetooth interwankwhatever capability, cup holders, and all that
other modern stuff.
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HowardB
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| posted on 18/2/21 at 08:08 PM |
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My S2 was rebuilt in 1993, it lived outside for most of it's life and used to be my daily drive. It was slow, noisy, expensive on fuel, but it
was cheap and easy to fix, more over it was fun.
Fun despite the 40' turning circle
Fun despite the 24 to the gallon - driven carefully
Fun despite the terrible ride and noise
Fun especially off road, fun up a mountain and Fun in the snow.
Almost as much fun as having a Scooby.
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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steve m
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| posted on 18/2/21 at 08:41 PM |
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Ive never owned a Landy, and never will, as have no use for one, but i used to drive, and do some minor work on a Friends Lightweight Landy, all Alui
i believe, and was ex military and a parachute vehicle, well thats what the paperwork said !!
It lived outside, in all weathers, it started first time, certainly when i drove it, it was used all through the year, with no roof (by my m8)
the only maintenace it ever had in 15-20 years was an oil change, and filters, all done on my drive, i never touched the brakes, or anything else
and i do not think any other soul ever did any work either, and it as far as i am aware never failed an MOT either
The Landy ended up in a military collection, as the offer, my friend got was something like 10 times what he paid for it, but that could of been an
exaggeration, and ive not seen him in 10 years
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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ianhurley20
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| posted on 18/2/21 at 10:18 PM |
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I have had a lot of years with Landies, my first company car in 1969 was a s1 swb landie. Until then I had believed the hype about them being the best
thing since sliced bread. Not impressed at all. Later years and it was s3's, one being brand new. They all have been appalling as a daily
drive. 2005 found me in a media marketing company selling Landies. I had a disco company car by then. Ok they have changed. I'd get people
coming to me saying the old one leaked water, had electical faults, had other problems etc. So what can I do for you? - answer - I want to buy
another! I can't believe how many problems the owners have had with them and yet they come back for more.
Me - I would never go near one, Toyota Land cruiser maybe but not a landie
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RichN
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| posted on 19/2/21 at 11:18 AM |
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I had a Series II for 2 years. It was a nightmare, I spent more time fixing it and welding the chassis than actually driving it.
So, I would not recommend buying a Series III, if you want it to be reliable and a relatively painless experience.
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02GF74
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| posted on 19/2/21 at 11:27 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
i used to drive, and do some minor work on a Friends Lightweight Landy, all Alui i believe, and was ex military and a parachute vehicle, well thats
what the paperwork said !!
It lived outside, in all weathers, it started first time, certainly when i drove it, it was used all through the year, with no roof (by my m8)
the only maintenance it ever had in 15-20 years was an oil change, and filters, all done on my drive, i never touched the brakes, or anything else
and i do not think any other soul ever did any work either, and it as far as i am aware never failed an MOT either
Yes, if memory serves me well, the lightweight started with series 2a initially with a beefed up chassis (and stronger axles) with different body
work, which was narrower than the standard series 2a/3 so that it could fit in Hercules (?) transporter. It was meant to be carried under a Westland
(?) helicopter so was to be lighter than the military version of the Series (hence the name) but still ended up heavier than the civilian Series (so
it wasn't).
By the time Land Rover finished development of the LWT, the helicopters had been worked on too so the weight restriction no longer applied. All
Series models have aluminium bodywork except for the bulkhead.
As an aside, military Land Rovers have square off rear chassis member, still seen on Defender, detachable gearbox cross-member and the rear diff was
painted white to be illuminated by a convoy lamp, the idea being that one vehicle could follow another in the dark although how the first vehicle
found its way remains a mystery to this day.
The question of rust has been raised, but how many cars from the same year do you see on the roads? (Hint: next to zero), so in comparison, far more
Series Land Rovers have survived than their contemporaries.
Comparing a Series to a modern car is a bit pointless, and it would not significantly fare worse if comparing any 50s car to a modern one.
Back to OP question. I would guess the novelty of using one for a daily driver will quickly wear off if you have to do long journeys. They are slow
unless you fit a Rover V8 when 70+mph is achievable, expensive to run (I have LWT with Rover V8 and did at best 15 mph at 60 mph; off road it is
single digit mpg) , noisy, not overly comfortable with fixed seat and lack of elbow room (more so in a LWT), dangerous as no crumple zones, no air
bag, no ABS, maybe have no seat belts or just lap belts but conversions are available), cold: the heater is no better than an asthmatic rabbit
breathing on you, hard to drive as no PAS (conversion are available) but it does save on gym membership.
If you want something different from a euro tin box and that is very capable off road, then go for it. They are unlikely to depreciate in value.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 19/2/21 at 12:06 PM |
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I,ve had a 2a on the road, full tilt it was great on a hot sunny day with the roof down.
Slow, noisy, drank fuel, easy to fix - bloody awful as an every day car.
Get a 90 with power steering and a 200tdi engine, the earlier non turbo’s are slow as, the turbo D’s just acceptable.
And yes you can leave outside any weather, just drench the chassis inside and out with wax oil and keep on top of the bulkhead.
Prices are of stupid for these, 30 years ago you could pick up a tatty v8 90 for under £2,000 - the only thing that’s improved is the value!
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02GF74
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| posted on 19/2/21 at 12:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
Prices are of stupid for these, 30 years ago you could pick up a tatty v8 90 for under £2,000 - the only thing that’s improved is the value!
agree with the above, a quick look on eBay, the asking price for LR LWTs in similar condition to mine is around £ 8k (I'm pretty sure I paid £
1800 around 2000) so that is 9% interest per year, I should have bought 10 of them!!!
There is someone near Amersham who is doing that, albeit with green Defenders, room for at least 3 more.... and who knows what's in the
garage!
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 19/2/21 at 01:01 PM |
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I think the point to get across is a Landy was never ever a car, its a crappy old farm truck... It's amazing how many don't get that
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 19/2/21 at 03:22 PM |
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Well, I guess this is quite clear now. Bad idea to daily one of these. I might just replace the (similarly slow) 500 with one; IF i can let that one
go...
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ADH75
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| posted on 19/2/21 at 05:41 PM |
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That's my plans for next July at the latest too not s3 but a 2010 onward Defender. The current car's PCP finishes then, and as I
won't touch another new car or nearly new as I vehemently disagree with the data mining, sorry telemetry on new cars, I'm ticking another
of my car bucket list. Going for a 110 wagon as my main car. I've only driven the 110 utility before, was cramped, cold, leaky and my God
couldn't wait to drive it every day. Not often you look forward to driving something with a steering lag, never mind a turbo lag!!
SWMBO has been prepped, and told it does have heaters (no body tell her...) and although I hope to use it on off road trips, I'll be stripping
it out and doing my own "Posh Defender".
As long as its got a good chassis & mechanically sound, the way prices are going it shouldn't loose too much and as long as it has heated
seats should keep her happy.
I may be completely mad, but looking forward to the noisy, thirsty brick on wheels, but I'll have the F27 for sporty handling and the Defender
for towing, transporting the family and bikes and stop the other half having to sleep at the hospital like this year to make sure she was making her
shifts should we have bad weather.
[Edited on 19/2/21 by ADH75]
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Mash
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| posted on 19/2/21 at 09:30 PM |
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I always wanted a Landy, but ended up buying a 2003 TD5 double cab. 3 years old when I bought it.
Yes it leaked, and it was drafty and it had a crazy oil getting into the loom from the injector loom, draining down into the ecu problem, but it was
GREAT!
i regularly drove it 600 miles up and down the country at weekends, never got stuck in any crazy Northern weather, and did 35 mpg(provided I
didn't go over 65 mph on the motorway). I loved it, and when I finally sold it, it needed the rear cross member sorting and that was it.
Just be prepared to need to do some work on it and you'll be fine, but don't buy an S3 
I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, but it was just someone with a torch bringing me more stuff to do
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 17/11/22 at 09:39 AM |
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Still messing around with this great bad idea. Yearly mileage has dropped to 1k miles on the second car....
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 18/11/22 at 12:51 PM |
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I may have just made a mistake. Roll on the madness
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SJ
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| posted on 18/11/22 at 01:23 PM |
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Looks lovely! Great that you took everyones advice .
I've always fancied one but in addition to the MK I now have an MGB that's almost ready for paint and putting back together. Fortunately,
despite the reputation my now 40 year old MGB had very little rust except in a couple of easily fixed areas, so should last pretty much forever when
I've done.
Just need to decide whether I go for an MX5 engine and box or stick with the B series once it's back on the road.
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 18/11/22 at 01:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SJ
Looks lovely! Great that you took everyones advice .
But Mr. Whippy made me do it!
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Funny enough every single person I have told Not to buy one has went off and got one anyway only to very quickly regret they didn't listen.
[Edited on 18/2/21 by Mr Whippy]
And as far as rust goes, bulkhead seems solid, chassis, outriggers and crossmembers as well. Doors a bit frilly at the bottom. Smokes like a chimney
(white, unburnt diesel so will start with new nozzles, setting correct opening pressures and pump timing. Take it from there) and 2nd gear crunches.
Spending her first 41 years in Spain it's a Santana SIII) seems to have helped.
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HowardB
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| posted on 18/11/22 at 03:37 PM |
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and it will be great fun - a car can be a device for travelling from A to B
most of the people here realise that a car can be so much more,..
I am seriously thinking about selling mine, only to make way for another though
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 14/12/22 at 07:46 AM |
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Well, it's here. And it just fits the garage with the rear tires let down to 7 psi.
Brakes: toast. New master and booster don't fit (my bad, ordered the biggest booster I could find from a defender. Will make fit)
Oil leaks: yes
Seatbelt bracketry and kit: doesn't fit. Not even close. Will make work.
Weird mix of imperial and metric fittings throughout, also as expected.
Sand everywhere (yup, also as expected)
Pulled the dash apart and dunked all (4!) switches in the ultrasonic cleaner for "reliability". Lots of muck came out.
Still need to rebuild injectors, re-time engine, fit modern glow plugs and a general service before I can drive it.
It's just like a kit car!
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