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Author: Subject: Strange noise - Clutch/Type 9
peter_m7uk

posted on 27/2/21 at 10:27 PM Reply With Quote
Strange noise - Clutch/Type 9

Hi all, I'm running a 2.0i Pinto with Type 9 box. I'm finding that everything is fine and smooth when cold and warming up, but once hot, the gearchange can become notchy and releasing the clutch pedal makes a worrying clunk!

When I'm changing gear after about 20-25 mins of driving (nice and hot), it decides to clunk, particularly from 1st-to-2nd and 2nd-to-3rd. If I stop the car, put it in neutral with engine running and move the clutch pedal in and out, there's a clunk when I release the pedal. With the engine off, no clunk. To clarify, the noise seems to happen at the point of clutch bite as the pedal is raised, whether in neutral or in gear.

It seems strange that the problem takes so long to appear, so it seems heat-related. I shielded the clutch cable so it can't get hot and expand. I adjusted the clutch so it's definitely disengaging gears when hot if I press the pedal halfway and beyond.

The Type 9 had done 100,000 miles when I took it out of the donor with no gearbox problems. All I did was change the oil, change the output shaft oil seal and fit a new clutch release bearing.

Any ideas, folks? 🤨

[Edited on 28/2/21 by peter_m7uk]

[Edited on 28/2/21 by peter_m7uk]

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rusty nuts

posted on 28/2/21 at 07:32 AM Reply With Quote
Spigot bearing beginning to seize, it “grabs” the first motion shaft giving the same symptoms as the clutch not clearing . Eventually it will seize and possibly damage the first motion shaft. Had the same problem about 3 years ago, a new spigot bearing is less than a tenner but the clutch has to come out
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christim

posted on 28/2/21 at 11:21 AM Reply With Quote
Having just put one in i can imagine getting the bearing out would be a challenge...guess you'd need a small drift hammer? Or some ingenuity





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obfripper

posted on 28/2/21 at 12:07 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by christim
Having just put one in i can imagine getting the bearing out would be a challenge...guess you'd need a small drift hammer? Or some ingenuity


A blind bearing puller is the correct tool, as an alternative i have changed mercedes and volvo ones by packing the hole with thick grease then tapping a close fit drift into the hole - i'm not sure if the ford one will work with the same technique as it is very narrow so will require a higher force to hydraulic out of the hole.

Dave

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rusty nuts

posted on 28/2/21 at 12:23 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by christim
Having just put one in i can imagine getting the bearing out would be a challenge...guess you'd need a small drift hammer? Or some ingenuity


Mine came out of the crank when I separated the engine and gearbox, it was stuck on the first motion shaft

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peter_m7uk

posted on 28/2/21 at 12:45 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Spigot bearing beginning to seize, it “grabs” the first motion shaft giving the same symptoms as the clutch not clearing . Eventually it will seize and possibly damage the first motion shaft. Had the same problem about 3 years ago, a new spigot bearing is less than a tenner but the clutch has to come out


Hi Rusty, thanks for your diagnosis! (Through gritted teeth as I realise the work and hassle involved )

I've been reading up about this, to try and understand if a failing spigot bearing matches the symptoms. As I understand it, when the clutch is fully engaged (pedal lifted), the flywheel and first motion shaft will rotate at the same speed and the needle rollers in the spigot bearing do not turn. So it would make perfect sense that there are no noises when in gear.

When the clutch is fully disengaged (pedal pressed) with engine running and box in neutral, the first motion shaft should be stationary and the flywheel spins - This means that the needle rollers in the spigot should be turning. If the spigot is beginning to seize, surely there would be noise at this point? It's bothering me that it's actually quiet, although I will listen more carefully again this afternoon. Unless it's seizing badly, then the first motion shaft might actually be spinning... This could make the gears hard to engage even with the clutch disengaged, which would match.

When I lift the clutch and start to find the biting point with the box in neutral, if I do it quickly, I get a clunk noise. If it's slow, there isn't much of a noise. This movement takes me from spigot needle rollers turning to stationary. So why the clunk? Do you think they're spinning quietly, but then suddenly catch and spin the first motion shaft? But isn't that what an engaging clutch does anyway, but that doesn't make a noise?

When I press the clutch to disengage, the needle rollers will go from stationary to turning, I'm surprised there's no noise then. Unless they're really seized and the rollers stay stationary with the first motion shaft spinning in neutral. But then why the clunk when I lift the clutch pedal again?

Also, why does this only happen when the gearbox is really hot after 20-25 minutes? I really appreciate your help, I'm not trying to say you're wrong or anything! I just wanted the diagnosis to match the symptoms, that's all, before I take the very large step of engine out and everything that entails!!

Cheers

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peter_m7uk

posted on 28/2/21 at 12:47 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by obfripper
quote:
Originally posted by christim
Having just put one in i can imagine getting the bearing out would be a challenge...guess you'd need a small drift hammer? Or some ingenuity


A blind bearing puller is the correct tool, as an alternative i have changed mercedes and volvo ones by packing the hole with thick grease then tapping a close fit drift into the hole - i'm not sure if the ford one will work with the same technique as it is very narrow so will require a higher force to hydraulic out of the hole.

Dave


Yes, I've been researching this morning and had found this tool, which should do it

eBay Item



[Edited on 28/2/21 by peter_m7uk]

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christim

posted on 28/2/21 at 10:29 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Mine came out of the crank when I separated the engine and gearbox, it was stuck on the first motion shaft

Aah that must have been one seized bearing!


Good luck Peter, not a small job but hopefully will be worth the hassle





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mcerd1

posted on 1/3/21 at 04:47 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by obfripper
packing the hole with thick grease then tapping a close fit drift into the hole


worked fine for me on 2 different cranks for my pinto

I can't remember if I turned up a tool on the lathe or just got lucky with the size of drift - but I was expecting a big fight and it came out with a couple decent hits with the hammer on each one (even one that was quite rusty)

its well worth a try if it saves you buying a tool





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snapper

posted on 1/3/21 at 08:48 PM Reply With Quote
I had an issue with what I thought was clutch not disengaging, similar to your symptoms but from startup, could engage gear.
Turned out to be gearbox spigot hitting back of crank through spigot bearing.
To test for this you can undo bellhousing bolts a little and take out 4 bolts, fit 2mm washers and bolt back up, if it’s the end of the spigot hitting the back of the crank it should now be releaved





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