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Author: Subject: Upping the power on 2l blacktop turbo
Zesty

posted on 13/6/21 at 07:38 AM Reply With Quote
Upping the power on 2l blacktop turbo

So I bought the indy r with 223bhp. Which is quick, donít get me wrong, but i canít help that feel it could do with a bit more power.

The engine is forged with MK1 focus rs internals.

Garret t3 turbo, ram air intake, air to air intercooler, and soon an oil cooler is being added.

Looking to achieve 280bhp. Thoughts?

The car never breaks traction, Avon zzs tyres. I can tell it will handle more power, and Iím hoping to track it, so want that extra straight line poke, plus corner exiting power.

Megasquirt 2 ecu.

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big_wasa

posted on 13/6/21 at 08:41 AM Reply With Quote
You say Rs internals. If they are stock Rs bits they are not forged.
That said they are still good.

Gt28, 600cc injectors, tubular manifold and a remap. Then you have try and keep it cool.

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Zesty

posted on 13/6/21 at 12:13 PM Reply With Quote
Interesting, 280bhp on cast internals? I believe the RS internals are pretty strongÖ
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Zesty

posted on 13/6/21 at 12:27 PM Reply With Quote
Spec list of engine etc, is as follows currently. With current power at 223bhp.

Focus RS internals, 2l Zetec engine (900miles since build)
Focus RS pistons
Focus RS rods
Bosch Green 443cc injectors
ARP rod bolts
Raceline baffled sump
Garrot T3 turbo - fully rebuilt, oil and watercooled with custom inline radiator (mounted in side pod)
RWD Motorsport lightened billet flywheel
RWD Motorsport Heavy duty clutch
RWD Motorsport Billet clutch housing
ARP flywheel bolts
Hydraulic clutch conversion
Type 9 gearbox (standard) - strip down and rebuilt in 2019
Custom alloy intercooler (built by Neil Dunne)
Custom alloy plenum (built by Neil Dunne)
Custom alloy inlet ducting
Billet Piston dump valve
Oil cooler with inline thermostat (relocated filter)*
Caterham exhaust/silencer

ECU/TUNE

Megasquart 2 v3 extra (USB/laptop connection)
Professionally configured and tuned at Devil Developments
Full harness rewire

[Edited on 13/6/21 by Zesty]

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big_wasa

posted on 13/6/21 at 01:04 PM Reply With Quote
Nice build. You donít say what inlet and exhaust manifold your running.

Rs pistons and rods are not forged. Pistons are pressure cast with a fully floating 22mm little end. Again the rods are not forged. This combo has regularly been pushed to 400bhp where everything is well on the limit including the oil pump. This combo gives you a static Cr of 8:1.

It wonít break a sweat at 300bhp with a better turbo and a little more fuel.

You are braver than me. I didnít like it at 250bhp but that was with old tyres on cold greasy roads.

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big_wasa

posted on 13/6/21 at 01:05 PM Reply With Quote
Mine before I sold it


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Zesty

posted on 13/6/21 at 01:11 PM Reply With Quote
Iím not sure about the inlet and exhaust manifold, still waiting on a few bits of info from the guy I bought it off.

Sounds very achievable then! Although Iím a bit concerned about the type 9 box? Surely that wonít handle the tourque with 280bhp?

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big_wasa

posted on 13/6/21 at 01:38 PM Reply With Quote
Not for long but it really will depend on how healthy it is to start with and how you drive it. I had an Mt75 on mine but was going to change to a Mazda mx5 n7 for the nicer ratios.
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big_wasa

posted on 13/6/21 at 01:39 PM Reply With Quote
Any pics ?
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perksy

posted on 13/6/21 at 01:54 PM Reply With Quote
BGH Type 9 with different ratios ?

First gear in the standard type 9 must be a bit short in this ?

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Zesty

posted on 13/6/21 at 02:12 PM Reply With Quote
By the way, just been told - Modified focus exhaust manifold and custom plenum.

Yeah gear ratios arenít great!

There isnít a lot of room, so Iím unsure what gearboxes actually fit. Rx8?

Seems if defo need a new turbo, the t3 is maxed out at the mo I believe.

How do you put pics on here?

[Edited on 13/6/21 by Zesty]

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big_wasa

posted on 13/6/21 at 05:12 PM Reply With Quote
My exhaust manifold is a modified focus one. Iíve done half a dozen. They have been proven to 300bhp and the small primaries should help it spool.

So you probably have a t3 from an old Rs escort or fiesta ? That will be your current limitation.

Pics you can make them pretty small and stick them in your archive if itís working or host them externally and link to them.

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Zesty

posted on 13/6/21 at 05:33 PM Reply With Quote
Yep thatís the t3 from an escort rs.

So turbo is the big one thenÖ

What about intercooler size? Iíll try and get some pics up!

Right, Iíve got a photo in the archive, how do I get it on this thread?!

[Edited on 13/6/21 by Zesty]

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Zesty

posted on 13/6/21 at 07:10 PM Reply With Quote
[img] MK
MK
[/img]

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big_wasa

posted on 13/6/21 at 07:31 PM Reply With Quote
I canít claim to be an expert. But cooling is the hard part in these. Whatís your charge temps like at the moment ?

But the turbo is your first stop.

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Zesty

posted on 13/6/21 at 07:37 PM Reply With Quote
Iíve no idea on charge temps!

I do know the turbo has its own little rad which is water cooled.

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big_wasa

posted on 14/6/21 at 08:19 AM Reply With Quote
Before you do to much I would do some diagnostics. I would want to know charge temps, Afr's and everything else. Your charge pipes look fairly skinny and the intercooler looks fairly small.
But a more efficient turbo might give more power at a lower level of boost and less heat.

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Zesty

posted on 14/6/21 at 07:46 PM Reply With Quote
Iíll have my mate at mountune take a good look and give me some options!

Donít really want to spend too much, but weíll seeÖ

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JimSpencer

posted on 14/6/21 at 08:17 PM Reply With Quote
I'd suggest that if you're planning on track use that you do so before you go any further.
Find out it's existing weak spots, deal with those whatever they may be and then add more grunt once you know it's basic reliability, handling, gearing and especially cooling are there or thereabouts.

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Oddified

posted on 14/6/21 at 08:18 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zesty
Donít really want to spend too much, but weíll seeÖ


Unfortunately that tends to go hand in hand with engines/turbos when wanting more power!

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Charlie_Zetec

posted on 14/6/21 at 11:02 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zesty
Sounds very achievable then! Although Iím a bit concerned about the type 9 box? Surely that wonít handle the tourque with 280bhp?


You're right, the T9 in standard guise won't last too long at the sort of power you're looking to run. I've had a Quaife straight cut internal T9, and was told it should reliably take up to the 300bhp mark, but after that was probably pushing it. Probably all depends on how hard you drive the car as well!

The inlet plenum look s nice as well, but I thought it was desirable to have a greater volume in it (dredging my brain for where i read that a while back)? Hence why the spacers and bigger chambers for the traditional GTiR plenums were made? Could be wrong, and stand to be proven so, just a little gremlin making me think....


EDIT - or maybe it was to do with internal trumpet length when fitted onto ITB's rather than using a single T/B? Someone must know, it's bugging me now and I can't find the article! :S





Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity!

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Zesty

posted on 15/6/21 at 06:30 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Charlie_Zetec
quote:
Originally posted by Zesty
Sounds very achievable then! Although Iím a bit concerned about the type 9 box? Surely that wonít handle the tourque with 280bhp?


You're right, the T9 in standard guise won't last too long at the sort of power you're looking to run. I've had a Quaife straight cut internal T9, and was told it should reliably take up to the 300bhp mark, but after that was probably pushing it. Probably all depends on how hard you drive the car as well!

The inlet plenum look s nice as well, but I thought it was desirable to have a greater volume in it (dredging my brain for where i read that a while back)? Hence why the spacers and bigger chambers for the traditional GTiR plenums were made? Could be wrong, and stand to be proven so, just a little gremlin making me think....


EDIT - or maybe it was to do with internal trumpet length when fitted onto ITB's rather than using a single T/B? Someone must know, it's bugging me now and I can't find the article! :S


Do you mean the intake plenum on mine? Itís a custom made one by neil dunne..

Iím wondering weather a stage 2 turbine wheel in the t3 would suffice? Then a bigger intercooler and downpipe?

Still waiting for my mate at mountune to have a look!

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djtom

posted on 16/6/21 at 10:36 PM Reply With Quote
We probably need a few more specifics about your setup:
How much boost are you running at the moment? More boost = more power (up to a point).
What are the intake air temperatures at full boost?
I'd also want to log a couple of wide open throttle runs as it is at the moment using a wideband lambda to ensure that the AFRs are ok
What duty cycle are the injectors running at?
Can you post a copy of the map, or at least the VE table and spark tables?

I suggest doing some datalogging on the Megasquirt and posting up the results before changing anything. You may have a wideband sensor fitted already, have a look - that would be very helpful to you.

If the turbo is maxed out (and a little baby T3 off an escort rs turbo may well be), then it's time for a bigger and more modern turbo. GT28 should do the trick for 280bhp, or a big TD04 (that's what I'm using) or TD05.

Be warned, from personal experience you can get too carried away chasing power, and when you have more power that leaves you chasing round a never ending circle of weak points on the car. e.g. keeping it cool (easy on road, much harder on track when you are beating on it), needing better brakes due to the added power / speed cooking them on track, gearbox needing upgrades to cope with the extra torque, propshaft UJs failing, diff mounts needing strengthening, and an array of heatshielding solutions to prevent the extra underbonnet heat melting things or setting them on fire. Those are just a few of the issues I've had to deal with, and I started pretty much exactly where you are now! I've enjoyed the journey, but I love tinkering and fabricating things myself. If I'd paid others to do the work it'd have cost me a fortune.

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Zesty

posted on 17/6/21 at 09:14 AM Reply With Quote
I think itís around 10psi, but I donít think there is much more puff from the t3!

Will post a pic of the dyno run from the previous owner later..

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