AdrianH
|
| posted on 27/6/21 at 11:23 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Westy1994
i also run copper pipes as the hard lines, i did remove one section when the r9 stuff was being fitted and found little to no adverse affects
internally, but again this is a sample size of one here so check your own to be safe and we are still getting e5 around here so i will be keeping a
close eye when e10 is sold.
and coskev, i tend to agree but not everywhere will sell it, and when they do the prices will be raised, since they want you to use e10, my local
station havent sold normal fuel for years and years now, and when questioned on if they will still stock e5 when the e10 comes in he said no, why
would i...
I have the J30 R6 lines and changing to J30 R9 should not be that expensive, if there was a hardline pipe that I could replace the copper with I would
do that is they run along the inside of the prop tunnel. I used 10mm microbore pipe, the fuel system is all low pressure so was not an issue, I do
have a joint in there and that is the main concern for me as well as the engine mounted fuel pump on the CVH, which I believe with it's age will
be the old rubber diaphragm type. I will have to see if I still have an old one to dismantle. Or, perhaps remove and blank and fit an external low
pressure pump?
As for using the premium super fuels, the last road trip I did was a few weeks ago and that clocked 790 miles, prior to that pre Covid I clocked 1100
miles on a trip down south and 1200 miles on a road trip to scotland, so the added extra they charge go from the typical E5 95 ron to a Shell or BP
garage super is quite considerable with a 38 to 40 mpg car.
The CVH just runs well and has not caused any issues over it's 12 years of use, out and out performance is not what I was after, ease of
maintenance being the main concern. But is it not a classic car so changes can be made. Perhaps this will be the kick up the rear to finally fit the
1.8 EFI Zetec over the winter period. I have had that sat under the bench for years.
Adrian
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
|
|
|
|
|
Westy1994
|
| posted on 27/6/21 at 04:23 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
What brand of fuel is he selling?
All Shell/BP/Esso garages I've been in sell super unleaded.
it is a bp one, but there arent many pumps, its just a small service station, all he stocks is derv and e5, i have asked him many times if he can just
use one pump for standard unleaded but it seems that its only me that wants it, so not worth his effort .
http://stopjunkcalls.org.uk/forum
|
|
|
Westy1994
|
| posted on 27/6/21 at 04:30 PM |
|
|
i used the microbore stuff as well, i will keep an eye on it as e10 gets phased in, the cost difference between r6 and r9 is very little, i got mine
from cbs but i guess fleabay would sell it as well. 2 meters did all my lines with a bit left over
tank to filter
filer to pump
pump to a pressure switch - to monitor pressure
switch to regulator
and finally reg to carbs. plus the link pipe between the two webers.
http://stopjunkcalls.org.uk/forum
|
|
|
number-1
|
| posted on 1/7/21 at 10:50 AM |
|
|
https://youtu.be/b9mLbuUSt-0
[Edited on 1/7/21 by number-1]
|
|
|
AdrianH
|
| posted on 2/7/21 at 08:45 PM |
|
|
Well I am playing on the safe side, the copper fuel pipe with the join is in the feed line from the tank to the engine, so will always have petrol in
it, so the prop is out and the tunnel sides are off and slowly working to replace the length with a single run. It is not as easy now the car is
built getting around the gearbox. As the existing lines being on the the car for at least 12 years I am happy to replace the rubber sections and fit a
new fuel filter. J30 R9 tubing is on order and should arrive in the next few days.
All the motor factors and accessory shops around here only stock J30 R6.
I am wondering? If I buy a replacement after market QH mechanical fuel pump for the engine if it would be OK, they could be being I guess
manufactured in the last couple of years and then that would just leave the Pierburg carb.
I plan to basically just do this remedial work on the car, (change brake fluid as well) and then see how the engine runs come September and the E10
Petrol. There is no pink detector on the esc-hybrid system, so not sure if I will have issues, if I do then I either find an additive, stick the
super grade fuel in or change over to a Silvertop 1.8 Zetec with EFI, I guess it is all do-able.
Adrian
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
|
|
|
Westy1994
|
| posted on 2/7/21 at 09:06 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by AdrianH
Well I am playing on the safe side, the copper fuel pipe with the join is in the feed line from the tank to the engine, so will always have petrol in
it, so the prop is out and the tunnel sides are off and slowly working to replace the length with a single run. It is not as easy now the car is
built getting around the gearbox. As the existing lines being on the the car for at least 12 years I am happy to replace the rubber sections and fit a
new fuel filter. J30 R9 tubing is on order and should arrive in the next few days.
All the motor factors and accessory shops around here only stock J30 R6.
I am wondering? If I buy a replacement after market QH mechanical fuel pump for the engine if it would be OK, they could be being I guess
manufactured in the last couple of years and then that would just leave the Pierburg carb.
I plan to basically just do this remedial work on the car, (change brake fluid as well) and then see how the engine runs come September and the E10
Petrol. There is no pink detector on the esc-hybrid system, so not sure if I will have issues, if I do then I either find an additive, stick the
super grade fuel in or change over to a Silvertop 1.8 Zetec with EFI, I guess it is all do-able.
Adrian
My car shop only sells R6 as well, and the cynic in me tells me they will sell more of this than R9, given my own testing on R6.
I would like think any parts inside a mech fuel pump would be safe to use these days, actually I have an old Ford pump from the 60's , I may
strip it and submerge all the parts that could be affected in E5 ( for now) as a experiment.I replaced my leccy one recently, but this was a Facet one
rated for E85, so that should be ok. Not sure if I have said this before, but the only parts inside my webers I am unsure of yet, is that do the fuel
shut off valves in the chambers have rubber as the tips?, some are all brass and some are tipped in rubber. I need to remove mine to find out.
http://stopjunkcalls.org.uk/forum
|
|
|
AdrianH
|
| posted on 3/7/21 at 11:10 PM |
|
|
Old fuel line is out and a new one ready to go in, still waiting for the hoses to arrive.
 
pipe1
 
pipe2
 
pipe3
General pipe layout - Joint _ Joint cutaway (by cutting disk).
The old hoses are certainly showing signs of cracking from the outside, no potential signs of internal deterioration down to 10 years of E5 on the
inside, but I would suggest to all after so many years they would need changing anyway. I cut the joint section in half with a slitting disk, the
heat was enough to melt the solder but looking internally it does not seem to be in bad condition, OK a little discoloured, but not bad after 12 years
use.
Adrian
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
|
|
|
SteveWalker
|
| posted on 4/7/21 at 12:06 AM |
|
|
I've just got rid of a copper dip pipe, soldered joints and old fuel hoses (replaced with stainless tube and fresh hose). I still have a nylon
feed line and copper return line from front to back. Nylon is supposed to be okay and I should be able to get away with the single piece copper line
for a long time. At some point, I may replace both with aluminium tube - supposedly pretty good with E10 and (almost) as malleable as copper.
[Edited on 4/7/21 by SteveWalker]
|
|
|
AdrianH
|
| posted on 15/7/21 at 07:01 PM |
|
|
A re-order of some more fuel line and a fuel filter arrived yesterday and I completed replacing all the rubber lines, definite cracking on the outside
of the hoses, but if that was down to evaporation though the old R6 or just 12 years is anyone's guess.
I used just over 3 meters in total.
I checked the diaphragm of the fuel pump and that looks to be in fine order, certainly not a rubber product so guess it is of suitable material. Not
stripped the carb down it is running fine so I will now have to await the use of E10 and see how it performs in the old CVH and keep my eyes open for
any issues. Changed the brake fluid today as well so that is another task off the list.
Adrian
[Edited on 15-7-21 by AdrianH]
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
|
|
|
motorcycle_mayhem
|
| posted on 16/7/21 at 08:17 AM |
|
|
Usual confusion evident from folks susceptible to the 'positive' environmental arguments put forward by those with such vested interests,
without question. Ethanol (or any oxygenate) does help the burn, yes, it does help emission related hardware. It's calorific value isn't
great though (remember it's the C-C bonds breaking that give you the energy). You also need to ask yourself... where is the EtOH coming from?
It's not like most folks idea of electricity, it's not 'magic'.
Yes, we all know where the infernal combustion engine is going, we will all be denied access due to taxation cost (except the political classes and
pensioned boomers). There will probably be enough extension cables coming over to this grey rock from Europe to supply us with electricity, so perhaps
a 'Mad Max' scenario where the likes of I, as the underclass, fight over charged Li-Ion battery packs won't happen...
The environmental problem may well be the 8 Billion people, or so I've heard, wanting to live like Americans. I don't know, it's a
viewpoint by some anyway. If that's the case, we need another planet (fast).
Anyway, E10, the OP's post. Will it affect my current vehicles?
Race car - No, it's on canned MTBE/Toluene fuel.
Land Rover SII (1967) Diesel (No)
Transhit - 2001 Diseasel (No)
Focus - 2005 (No)
|
|
|
Sanzomat
|
| posted on 16/7/21 at 02:16 PM |
|
|
Just to add my two pence worth. My GTM Spyder came to me in 2014 with all R6 hoses, stiff, brittle, shrunk at the joins to hard lines and cracking on
the outside. That after 10 years assuming they were the originals (IVA/registered 2004). I think E5 was the normal pump fuel for most of this period.
I replaced everything with R9 hose in 2014. I continued to use E5 fuel. By 2019 I noticed a bit of fuel seeping at a join or two and closer inspection
showed the R9 hose had deteriorated to almost as bad as the 10 year old R6 had got to but this was in just 5 years. Okay, maybe the R6 had been
replaced already. Either way - in my experience R9 hose needs replacing after 5 years running E5 through it so probably 3 years with E10. I've
stayed with R9 for now as I couldn't get anything better over the counter and wanted to change it as soon as I found the weeping. Next time
I'll plan ahead and get something higher grade than R9.
|
|
|
David Jenkins
|
| posted on 16/7/21 at 02:56 PM |
|
|
What I find astonishing, and rather terrifying, are the many videos that can now be found on YouTube showing methods for getting the ethanol out of
petrol. Mostly they involve putting the petrol in a large plastic container, adding water, shaking it vigorously, leaving it overnight, then pouring
the petrol off the top of the water. The theory is that the ethanol readily mixes with the water, thus separating it from the petrol.
What could go wrong?! 
There are so many ways it could go nasty, very quickly... most of the videos show 5-gallon plastic containers, none of which would be allowed in a UK
petrol station. If the container is dropped while being shaken it could easily burst, ruining your whole day. And if there was a spark or naked
flame nearby...
It seems that removing the ethanol changes the octane rating as well.
Oh - and almost all of these videos originate in the USA.
|
|
|
gremlin1234
|
| posted on 16/7/21 at 05:02 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
What I find astonishing, and rather terrifying, are the many videos that can now be found on YouTube showing methods for getting the ethanol out of
petrol. Mostly they involve putting the petrol in a large plastic container, adding water, shaking it vigorously, leaving it overnight, then pouring
the petrol off the top of the water. The theory is that the ethanol readily mixes with the water, thus separating it from the petrol.
What could go wrong?!
There are so many ways it could go nasty, very quickly... most of the videos show 5-gallon plastic containers, none of which would be allowed in a UK
petrol station. If the container is dropped while being shaken it could easily burst, ruining your whole day. And if there was a spark or naked
flame nearby...
It seems that removing the ethanol changes the octane rating as well.
Oh - and almost all of these videos originate in the USA.
at least they could win a Darwin award, but just think they could also drink the ethanol.
is it possible to win two Darwin awards at the same time...
|
|
|
AdrianH
|
| posted on 22/7/21 at 06:47 PM |
|
|
I was surprised today when I visited an Asda Petrol Station that the petrol pumps already said E10 95 RON. I guess that it is here already.?
Adrian
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
|
|
|
SteveWalker
|
| posted on 23/7/21 at 01:52 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
When I visit my daughter in Australia I usually hire a car, so I get to see their petrol stations - they usually have 3 petrol pumps, E10, standard,
and super. E10 is the cheapest, standard costs a bit more, and super is the most expensive.
I don't see why the UK can't be the same: E10 for those that can use it, standard for those that can't, and super for those with
higher-tuned engines.
Except that those that can't use E10 are mainly those that can't afford a newer car and so charging them more for fuel is a big financial
hit that they cannot avoid.
|
|
|
Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 23/7/21 at 09:23 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
What I find astonishing, and rather terrifying, are the many videos that can now be found on YouTube showing methods for getting the ethanol out of
petrol. Mostly they involve putting the petrol in a large plastic container, adding water, shaking it vigorously, leaving it overnight, then pouring
the petrol off the top of the water. The theory is that the ethanol readily mixes with the water, thus separating it from the petrol.
What could go wrong?!
Quite and what do they do with this water/ethanol waste? why just pour it down the drain along with the mucky petrol that didn't quite separate
properly at the bottom cos who wants to bother disposing of that stuff properly...
|
|
|
David Jenkins
|
| posted on 23/7/21 at 10:08 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Quite and what do they do with this water/ethanol waste? why just pour it down the drain along with the mucky petrol that didn't quite separate
properly at the bottom cos who wants to bother disposing of that stuff properly...
Absolutely! Dodgy and risky chemistry, high risk to life and limb, and a high risk of environmental damage. Also a risk to the engine, if you mess it
up.
As I said - what could go wrong?!
P.S. My description of that process was incorrect - they put food colouring in the water, shake it all about, leave it to settle, then drain the water
off the bottom until the liquid doesn't show any colour. Doesn't alter what I said earlier...
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 23/7/21 at 11:06 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
Except that those that can't use E10 are mainly those that can't afford a newer car and so charging them more for fuel is a big financial
hit that they cannot avoid.
But as I think we've concluded, most cars, even older ones, can run it just fine.
However life is tough, cars aren't a right. Do I like it? No. But for the world to progress and improve we can't appease all folk all the
time. What would be the alternative proposition?
|
|
|
Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 23/7/21 at 02:20 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
Except that those that can't use E10 are mainly those that can't afford a newer car and so charging them more for fuel is a big financial
hit that they cannot avoid.
But as I think we've concluded, most cars, even older ones, can run it just fine.
However life is tough, cars aren't a right. Do I like it? No. But for the world to progress and improve we can't appease all folk all the
time. What would be the alternative proposition?
More trains and busses
|
|
|
Bluemoon
|
| posted on 23/7/21 at 03:49 PM |
|
|
Not read all the posts, but might find this link helpful.
https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/fuels
Quite good on keeping to the facts.
Something we will all need to consider for pre-2000 based cars.
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 25/7/21 at 12:54 PM |
|
|
Bio-ethanol (that produced from maize) is calorie negative I believe. i.e. it takes more calories to produce it than are in it.
If it's true then it seems a backward step!
|
|
|
SteveWalker
|
| posted on 25/7/21 at 01:23 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
Except that those that can't use E10 are mainly those that can't afford a newer car and so charging them more for fuel is a big financial
hit that they cannot avoid.
But as I think we've concluded, most cars, even older ones, can run it just fine.
However life is tough, cars aren't a right. Do I like it? No. But for the world to progress and improve we can't appease all folk all the
time. What would be the alternative proposition?
Cars may not be a right, but they are often a necessity. Many people simply could not practically get to their workplace without one. In my own case,
it takes less than 40 minutes to do the round trip by car and nearly 3 hours without. I have a disabled wife and three children to look after and to
provide for. I simply cannot lose over 2 hours per day - life would simply not be worth living as it would be an endless round of work, travel, tasks
at home, sleep, travel and work again, with no personal or family time at all.
[Edited on 25/7/21 by SteveWalker]
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 25/7/21 at 01:41 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
Except that those that can't use E10 are mainly those that can't afford a newer car and so charging them more for fuel is a big financial
hit that they cannot avoid.
But as I think we've concluded, most cars, even older ones, can run it just fine.
However life is tough, cars aren't a right. Do I like it? No. But for the world to progress and improve we can't appease all folk all the
time. What would be the alternative proposition?
Cars may not be a right, but they are often a necessity. Many people simply could not practically get to their workplace without one. In my own case,
it takes less than 40 minutes to do the round trip by car and nearly 3 hours without. I have a disabled wife and three children to look after and to
provide for. I simply cannot lose over 2 hours per day - life would simply not be worth living as it would be an endless round of work, travel, tasks
at home, sleep, travel and work again, with no personal or family time at all.
[Edited on 25/7/21 by SteveWalker]
A fair comment.
Myself I used to have company cars and cover 30k+/year miles. Wife & I also have 3 kids.
2014 epilepsy stopped me driving and I switched to public transport to commute to work. 4 hours round trip for a 40 mile round trip.
Working from home this past year or so made a difference, but back in the office now.
IMHO humans need to reevaluate energy consumption (travel being a major factor) and change things.
Working patterns and locations will have to be included.
|
|
|
SteveWalker
|
| posted on 25/7/21 at 02:07 PM |
|
|
You may have had the right to request working from home, at least part of the week and they'd have had to give good reasons why not, as it would
normally be considered a reasonable adjustment to cater for a disability. Them failing to do so would have left them open to action through a
tribunal.
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 25/7/21 at 04:21 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
You may have had the right to request working from home, at least part of the week and they'd have had to give good reasons why not, as it would
normally be considered a reasonable adjustment to cater for a disability. Them failing to do so would have left them open to action through a
tribunal.
Valid point and I was allowed to work from home during my initial recovery period when I came out of hospital (head injury).
The employer/employee relationship worked well and they've been exceptionally supportive throughout.
No complaints there.
|
|
|
