jestre
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| posted on 2/9/05 at 10:18 PM |
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Fuel Prices?
Are the petrol/gas prices rising as fast in Europe as they are here in the U.S.?
Early this year we were around $1.65 a gallon, now its (today) $3.39 a gallon.
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JoelP
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| posted on 2/9/05 at 10:22 PM |
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i saw 98.9p per litre today. Nearly £4 per gallon, or about $6/7  (whats the rate atm?)
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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ned
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| posted on 2/9/05 at 10:24 PM |
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my other half is concerned about this, she's done around 20,000 miles in the last year.
we were paying around 79.9p per litre for standard unleaded within the last 4-6 or so months, its now gone up to 91.9p a litre at sainsbury's
which is the cheapest locally.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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the_fbi
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| posted on 2/9/05 at 10:39 PM |
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Cheapest I've seen this week (and I've been about a bit) was 87.9 (unleaded) at a Total (i think) on the A41 out of Watford towards the
M25.
Place was packed!
Most other places are 91.9 to 93.9 round here.
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steve_gus
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| posted on 2/9/05 at 10:45 PM |
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assuming fue in the uk is 92p a gallon, that the usa exchange rate is about 1.80 and our gallon is bigger than the USA measure, I make a dollar price
of approx 6.75 a US gallon.
3 dollars would be cheap. But then we drive 1.4 litre crap wagons, not 3 litre stuff.....
atb
steve
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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Triton
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| posted on 2/9/05 at 10:46 PM |
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Time to start keeping pigs then....
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dmottaway
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| posted on 2/9/05 at 10:54 PM |
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unfortunately, or not, we have been spoiled with lower gas prices than those on the eastern side of the big pond.
however, I think the question was about the rate of increase in prices. Our gas prices have more than doubled in the past year.
Have yours? May sound snippy, but please don't take it that way.
dave
Somewhere, in Texas, a village is missing its idiot.
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jestre
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| posted on 2/9/05 at 10:55 PM |
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and to think I really wanted my S-10 with the 4.3L Vortec engine. vortec is spelled "Gas Guzzler"
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andyps
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| posted on 2/9/05 at 11:04 PM |
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I guess our petrol prices have probably doubled - but the amount of tax we pay hides this (and the VAT element goes up every time the petrol goes up.
The price is getting silly, I need to look at an LPG conversion, but how long will the tax be cheaper?
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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SixedUp
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| posted on 2/9/05 at 11:06 PM |
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quote:
... however, I think the question was about the rate of increase in prices. Our gas prices have more than doubled in the past year.
Have yours? May sound snippy, but please don't take it that way.
No, they haven't, because the vast majority of the street price of our fuel is tax, which stays fairly static.
The basic price of the fuel itself has risen quite a bit, and there has been some upward movement in the tax too, but basically the very high (but
largely stable) tax element reduces the impact of even fairly large fluctuations in the underlying price of the fuel.
In short, our fuel is always expensive 
Cheers
Richard
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Hellfire
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| posted on 2/9/05 at 11:16 PM |
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Up here in the Midlands/North of the UK were are paying approximately 15% more than we were in January/February this year, 20% more than we were
paying this time last year.
To put things into proportion the USA is paying less than half the price of the lowest price petrol in Europe. I reckon the US Government is gradually
bringing it into line with Europe, justifying it and thereby making more profit to boot!
I found this website interesting reading about costs:
http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/fuel/
and this one about how much we're taxed:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/world/2000/world_fuel_crisis/933648.stm
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dmottaway
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 12:56 AM |
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that was my whole point. if your prices are mostly taxes, which are mostly stable, it is easier (not easy, just easier) to tolerate a 10, 20, or even
a 30% increase in the cost of the petroleum product.
but when the petroleum product represents 75% of the cost of fuel (taxes being the other 25%), and then it doubles, it is a tad more painful.
still, I will deal with it knowing I am not paying your prices.
about a month ago I bought a gallon of gas for my mower. the can, still full, is still in the back of my truck. cost me $1.99. same gallon would
cost me $3.25 today.
where I live, there are several refineries within an hours drive. there are several hundred productive oil wells in the same area. not a drop of
rain from Katrina. yet, our prices are going up faster than some other parts of the country. go figure.
[Edited on 3/9/05 by dmottaway]
Somewhere, in Texas, a village is missing its idiot.
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The Shootist
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 01:26 AM |
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Georgia Goveror Sonny Perdue....
just waved all state taxes on motor fuel in his state (Georgia...3rd state east from Louisiana). This will effect the per gallon price by about 15
cents.
We due have federal excise tax in there also, but I think our tax is a percentage of the selling price, rather than cents per gallon. In other words
when the price of gas goes up, the taxes go up also.
Not certain of the tax structure in the UK, but we do pay.....
1. Income taxes- Federal, some states, even some cities also have income tax. Varies from 15% on the low end to almost 40% for the higher wage
earners. My state also has an investment tax to be paid if more than a certain percentage of your income is derived from investments. Nails alot of
retirees.
2 Property taxes- Every year, a local tax based on the value of your home. This may be duplicated by both county and city. About 1% where I live, MUCH
higher in many more deloped areas.
3. Sales Tax- on most all purchases, paid to both city, county, and state. 10% where I live.
4. Death Tax- you've worked all your life to build a small business, or familly farm, then when you die, if all assets are worth more than $1
million.... 55% estate tax. This must be paid, and many famillies must sell the inherited assets to pay the tax.
5. Wage taxes- On top of income taxes we also have deductions for Social Security, Indegent Medical Care, Worker Compensation etc.
6. Use Taxes- In addition to sales tax, we have added fees tacked onto our phone, internet, wireless etc.
7. Wheel taxes- State and Local-Annual taxes to be paid to use our cars. In my area you may not even have a car on your property unless these taxes up
to date, even if the car isn't driven. Some states take this to the extreme, for instance Geaogia has an Ad-valorum taxe which is at a sales tax
rate every year based on what the state says your car is worth. My wife's Honda 2004 CRV would cost $1,000 to renew the tags on this year.
8. Capital Gains Taxes- Based on the increase in value of an investment. If you buy a stock, and the price goes up then you sell, you must pay this
tax, about 40% last time I paid any. You may also pay in come tax in some areas.
There are many more, with a Federal Tax Code alon amassing over 100 bound volumes.
All in all, I'll bet the ACTUAL cost of gas is about equal here and in the UK, The taxes just hurt a little more at the pump over there.
I'll best you have environ mentalists telling you that you need to more too.
[Edited on 9/3/05 by The Shootist]
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ned
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 07:32 AM |
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just for comparisons sake:
1.) income tax. 25% from around £4-33k salary, 40% over £33k approx
2.)council tax. varies from county to county, dependant on size of house, area etc. i live in a 2 bed semi in surrey and pay about £120 a month
iirc
3. VAT (value added tax, currently 17.5%) added to the sale of most goods and services, with some exceptions
4. inheriance tax. i forget the % but if your estate is worth over £250k approx you get charged a % on it. there are some exceptions, mainly working
farms iirc. there are other ways around this aswell such as leaving property in trust or signing it over to someone else at least 7 years before you
die iirc
5. National insurance - pretty much for the same stuff as you've already said.
6. I'm sure we have something equivalent, but i expect its charged to the wholesale suppliers of these types of services, so we don't see
it as a direct additional cost to the consumer
7. Road tax. for cars upto 1500cc (i think) its £110 for cars with engines over this its £170 odd. new cars are slightly different now and costs are
based on co2 emissions.
8. yes we have capital gains, not sure of the details myself.
not wanting to go off topic, but we do have similar taxes, though i'm sure the percentages we pay will differ quite a bit.
i'm happy to be corrected on any of the above.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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JoelP
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 07:35 AM |
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We have all those basicaly, with different names.
1) income tax, small yearly tax free allowance, tax steping up to 40% on earnings over 40is grand.
2) Council tax, about £1000 a year.
3) VAT, currently 17.5% on all purchases except secondhand and some exempt items (kids clothes etc)
4) Inheritance tax, not sure of the amount.
5) National insurance, allegedly for pension contributions. Maybe 5% of wage?
7) Road tax, about £165 a year.
Same old dance, just a different tune
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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the_fbi
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 08:15 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
3) VAT, currently 17.5% on all purchases except secondhand and some exempt items (kids clothes etc)
Not many people know this, but feminine hygiene products (tampax etc) are only 5% VAT rather than the normal 17.5% as they are no longer a
"luxury item" but 5% is the lowest the EU can have them.
This costs the Government over £35M a year and changed in Jan 2001.
There are also some other oddities, Milk Shakes from a fast food outlet. They are classed as a "Luxury Item" if you "eat in",
but if you "take away" you don't pay VAT on them. (or vice versa, not sure).
Lets not even go near the "Jaffa Cakes" is it a cake or a biscuit debacle.
Strange world...
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MikeR
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 08:44 AM |
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yep, my milkshake last night went from costing over a pound to just 92pence because i was going to eat out
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jonbeedle
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 10:17 AM |
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There's an email going round telling us all to stop buying from the biggest companies, Esso and BP. That way if everyone was to boycott the big
companies they would be stuffed and forced to do something. It could make a difference if only everyone did it but they won't because we
can't stick together.
Can you imagine what would happen if we ALL refused to pay our council tax, ALL refused to pay exorbitant fuel prices, or ALL refused to pay our speed
camera penalties? We, the people, have the power...if we could give a toss and that's the problem, we don't. Therefore the government will
continiue to take the wee out of us and we'll just keep on moaning and doing nothing!
Anyway good morning all!
Cheers
Jon
"Everyone is entitled to an opinion however stupid!"
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MikeR
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 10:33 AM |
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i've got one slight problem with the fuel boycott.........
where do the supermarkets get there fuel from? I don't know for sure but i've heard mostly from the big two. So, if we stop buying fuel
its the forecourt owners that suffers. They are mostly franchised and make no / v.little profit from the fuel. They make the money on everything else
in the shop (or pray they have HUGE turnover of fuel).
But hold on ........ we all know in this country most of the fuel price is tax so who are we trying to get at here??
The gov. will still get its tax as we're still buying fuel from other people.
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jonbeedle
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 10:46 AM |
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Yeah you're right. But my point is that we need to stick together in order to make changes. Maybe boycotting petrol stations is not the answer,
I don't know, but we must be able to come up with something. I'm sure you see my point in that if we all stand together and refuse to pay
exorbitant fuel prices, taxes or whatever, the authorities will have to act. In the States a couple of years ago I seem to remember petrol price
rises were reversed after the public protested. If we don't do something soon, we'll face not only ridiculous fuel price rises but road
tolls, massive fines for minor road traffic offenses, and exorbitant insurance premiums and motoring will be for the very wealthy people only.
Cheers
Jon
[Edited on 3/9/05 by jonbeedle]
"Everyone is entitled to an opinion however stupid!"
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MikeR
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 11:11 AM |
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its interesting because in theory the gov. is there to look after our best interests.
This is on two levels, our basic needs and our long term safety. They are like our mothers or teachers in the playground.
Now the question has to be, is our short term want for cheeper fuel good for us?
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steve_gus
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 11:33 AM |
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strange - we all pay national insurance, and not one poster knows how much it is .....
in a very rougth way,
you are allowed to earn approx 4,500 quid before ANY tax is taken.
next 2k approx is taxed at 10%
next amount, up to approx 32k, is taxed at 22%
all above that is taxed at 40%
National Insurance (NI) is 11% (not 5% joel) up to summat lile 28k. it used to stop there, but a year or two back its 1% for everything above 28k
ish.
inheritance tax is 40% on anything above 250k.
I think fuel is taxed at something like 80+ % per gallon. There is the fuel tax AND the 17.5% vat on top! If a gallon cost 15p a yea r ago, and
doubled to 30p now, its the tax element that is by far the major part - not the basic cost.
atb
steve
ps
at the end of the day, govt need money coming in to pay the bills. If they dont get the revenue on fuel, they will get it someplace else? fancy 25%
vat anyone?
Many on this site will be too young to know, but its been there before in the 70s. VAT used to be applied at different rates to different goods. There
was a 8%, 12.5% and 25% rate before it was unifed at 15% than changed to 17.5% after the poll tax debacle (which was meant to be temporary!!!!). All
electricals and car stuff was 25% vat at one time.....
[Edited on 3/9/05 by steve_gus]
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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MikeP
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 12:03 PM |
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Our fuel costs in Ontario jumped from under $0.80ish per liter last year to $1.37 this weekend. Part of the jump is thanks to the traditional long
weekend screwing we get from the oil companies - this is Labour/Labor Day in Canada/US, so should improve somewhat later next week.
It's interesting that all of the major oil companies have production and distribution costs that are equal to the nearest 1/10th of a penny at
the pumps. That consumer prices can react in step to an increase in crude costs within 24hrs. Yet all of the companies react with equal slowness -
weeks? - when crude prices fall.
Of course price fixing is illegal. Our government checked in it and found no evidence it was happening, god bless 'em. So there must be some
other explaination  .
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MikeR
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 12:10 PM |
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also bear in mind that the fuel pumped out of the ground today doesn't get to your pump for weeks / months. So if the price of crude increases
it should take weeks for that to get through to the pump....
strange how it doesn't!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 02:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve_gus
strange - we all pay national insurance, and not one poster knows how much it is .....
National Insurance (NI) is 11% (not 5% joel) up to summat lile 28k. it used to stop there, but a year or two back its 1% for everything above 28k
ish.
And don't forget that your employer pays as much NI on your behalf as you do yourself (or even more!). This is another tax hidden from workers,
as it is money that the employer could put in your pay packet if they didn't have to pay it to the government.
Also, if your talking about unfair taxes, what about the tax on the money earned by pension funds! You pay in out of money that's already been
taxed, the fund's interest get taxed, then you pay tax again when the pension pays out...
David
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