ecosse
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| posted on 12/1/06 at 10:22 AM |
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Wishbones for 442 chassis?
Not sure if this should be under the chassis section or in here, so apologies if I have got it wrong
Question: I am presuming that I should be using wider wishbones than book size on a 442 chassis with a full width sierra back end (correct?), but how
much wider, and are there any plans or dimensions available to build them myself? Can I just extend the book sizes by equal amounts, top and bottom,
or is there more to it?
If doing this myself is not advised, does anyone supply wide top 'bones to suit cortina uprights rather than sierra ones?
After looking at previous posts on this subject I got the impression that the top wishbone needs to be different for cortina or sierra (can anyone
confirm?)
Last question: how does the extra width affect the the suspension geometry, and (if building them myself) where should the position of the bottom
shock mount be, as far out as possible or book width? (Sorry, that was two questions wasn't it!  )
Any help/advice appreciated 
Cheers
Alex
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 12/1/06 at 12:41 PM |
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I've decide to make mines (for a 442)std bookish but with the recomendation that the plate should be welded along the centre axis of the tube. I
don't know about the geometry set up but you would need tre extensions on the rack to reach the uprights.
And for your last question then yes the bottom mount should be as far out as possible but the downside is that the shock is desigened to work in a
vertical position.Thereforespring rates will change etc.
So like I said I've decided to keep std bones on front and hope it doesnt look silly.Just remember when going through a gap that the back is
wider than the front
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ecosse
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| posted on 12/1/06 at 05:01 PM |
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Thanks for that Omega, are you going to use wheels with a big offset to cover it, or does that upset the steering again?
Any idea as to how much wider "wide" bones are over "book" ones?
I was looking at an additional 3" a side, would that be about right?
Would it be possible/advisable to extend the top shock mount out to compensate, or is there too much force exerted on it?
Are you using sierra or cortina uprights on yours (just out of interest )
I'm question mode again (can you tell )
Cheers
Alex
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 12/1/06 at 06:46 PM |
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Ok I'll answer in order
Had'nt decided on wheels but prolly will keep all offsets front and rear the same.
A capri axle is 4" wider than an escort (not sure about Sierra IRS) so I would Imagine the front bones would need an extra 2" a side.
If your'e looking for extensions for your rack look here NTDWM just came across them in my locost search
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4604135854&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:UK:1
You could extend the top mounts I suppose but forsee problems with extra strengthening brackets (triangulation being required and the possibility of
the nose cone not covering exposed areas for the SVA ( radii etc) also perhaps fouling of the coilovers on the top wish bone (perhaps)
Cortina uprights for me and I'm just back off into the shed to work on my bones and hopefully post some piccy's later for
suggestions/ideas/slagging me off etc etc.
before I mass weld them.
[Edited on 12/1/06 by omega 24 v6]
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Bob C
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| posted on 12/1/06 at 07:40 PM |
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I was under the impression that the wider chassis had all the extra width 'in the chassis' so would use standard wishbones.
I'm basing that on a recollection that the wider ones had zero bump steer with a stock escort rack. Apologies in advance if I'm
wrong.....
Bob C
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Bob C
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| posted on 12/1/06 at 07:44 PM |
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checked in
http://www.mcsorley.net/locost/
& it seems to agree with me...
Bob
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 12/1/06 at 08:07 PM |
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The plus 4 prolly does but you'd need a sierra rack or rack extensions. However the 442 has different nose area angles and is somewhat
different.i.e. it's supposed to fit a std nosecone ( This seems to be debatable.)
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ecosse
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| posted on 12/1/06 at 10:01 PM |
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The 442 is 4" wider at the widest part of the chassis (tub) but tapers to just 1" wider at the front (top rail) and 1" smaller
(never realised that till I looked!) on the bottom rail.
Does that not throw the geometry of the book 'bones out a bit?
Does it matter?
Cheers
Alex
PS
Seems odd to me but what do I know 
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 12/1/06 at 10:20 PM |
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Yep it throws the geometry at least 10mm out and if you use the drawingin the book that shows the dimensions from the front i.e. the one with the LA
LB LC LD assy youll need to adjust your brackets to suit. Check my archive there are some in there showing the gaps and what I've done to keep
it as the book dimensions. By the way check my dem bones post for links to how I think I'm gonna make them.
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ecosse
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| posted on 12/1/06 at 10:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
Yep it throws the geometry at least 10mm out and if you use the drawingin the book that shows the dimensions from the front i.e. the one with the LA
LB LC LD assy youll need to adjust your brackets to suit. Check my archive there are some in there showing the gaps and what I've done to keep
it as the book dimensions. By the way check my dem bones post for links to how I think I'm gonna make them.
I was just reading that very post
I'll have a look at your pics though, cheers again
Alex
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James
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| posted on 13/1/06 at 09:15 AM |
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Alex,
I greatly respect Jim McSorley for his chassis work but this 442 design (1" wider top 1" wider bottom) seems way too complicated!
I've done a unusual chassis design myself and in a lot of ways it's been an absolute nightmare! Particularly with the nose cone and side
panels.
It also meant the only scuttle available was the GTS W7DE scuttle and therefore I'm limited with dashboard choice too.
Anyway, enough moaning- onto yours!
The Sierra track is 4" wider than Escort (according to people on here).
Therefore you want the bottom wishbones 2" longer. (That's assuming you have standard dimension (placed) wishbone brackets.
You may well be able to get away with using standard mount points for your wishbone brackets- if not you could bodge it by adding a section of rail to
the outside of the bottom rails and the inside of the top rails- and attash the chassis brackets to these- ie. in the normal place.
If you don't do this then your risking knackering the geometry by changing the wishbone mounts.
Cheers,
James
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"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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ecosse
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| posted on 13/1/06 at 10:42 AM |
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Omega, checked your pics which were a big help, thanks.
Please excuse my ignorance here (yes again ) but if both top and bottom are 10mm out would it throw the front geometry out too much by just reducing
the book mounting point widths by that 10mm a side both top and bottom, especially as the bones remain book size?
Or is it not worth taking the chance not knowing for sure?
As per james comments, adding an extra 2" to the book bones should be okay (just about everyone seems to be doing it anyway), but would it be
best to attempt to move the top shock mount out to compensate (points about SVA in mind) or keep the position on the bottom bone, relative to the book
dimensions?
Cheers
Alex
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 13/1/06 at 12:11 PM |
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the 442 ive built has a +4 front end at the bottom and the std +442 top rail .
still it makes the bottom wishbone quite long , especially since with std rear tyres/alloys my overall width is 65.5 inches at the back , and it
should really be wider at the front .
im nearing completion on the scuttle .
not sure on nosecone yet , i got 3/4 there , and really i want to make a round tube chassis , which much better suits me .
anyway , youll find pics of my front setup .
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.slater133/front1.jpg
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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ecosse
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| posted on 13/1/06 at 04:11 PM |
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Looks good, I like the inboard shock arrangement (Own design or to plans?), it's certainly wide, how much over book sizes are the bones?
I suppose using normal shock mounts with that width wouldn't be possible anyway.
What was the reason for going +4 on the bottom rail?
Cheers
Alex
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andyps
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| posted on 13/1/06 at 04:57 PM |
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Volvorsport - what bush/bearing are you using in the pivot of your suspension?
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 13/1/06 at 06:11 PM |
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bushes are 12mm from MNR , but they aint doing any outside customer work , so im having a rethink one aswell .
the inboard stuff was my own design , contrary to marks opinion .
the wishbones end up about 16 inch long , which would be even longer with a std 442 chassis at the bottom - so thats what i did to remedy it . the
brackets are also further up the chassis .
they have a 5/8 joint at the outboard end so they could well fit a normal chassis , as they have normal book spacing .
What i plan to do is make another chassis round tube , with wishbones that bolt downwards into the chassis , making it easier to jig etc
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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rusiq
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| posted on 6/2/06 at 01:30 PM |
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checked in Canadian Online Locost
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