StevieB
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| posted on 29/8/06 at 07:04 PM |
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R1 - Carbs or Injection
When I get round to buying an R1 engine for my car, what's the best - carbs or injection?
All opinions greatly received!
Steve
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 29/8/06 at 08:27 PM |
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Horses for courses really, there are benefits to both.
Carb'd engines have the benefit of being a bit cheaper to buy and cheaper to set up with just a re-jet required to run reasonably well.
the 2002/3 FI engines have the benefit of being newer so generally lower mileage etc, EFI usually also starts / idles better and if you have a Power
Commander you have much better control over fuelling (and ignition with a PC3R Power Commander), although need a map. The EFI engine also has a better
mid range than the carbed engine although top end there's nothing much in it.
Exhausts are interchangable and engine mounts are virtually the same, but the EFI engine has a deeper sump so will often sit too low if mounted in
carb engine mounts.
As for the later EFI engines, they are totally different, significantly more powerful but rather peaky and not that well proven in BECs yet.
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StevieB
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| posted on 29/8/06 at 08:33 PM |
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2 nil to the carbs so far then! Cheap and easier to set up - sounds like my sort of thing!
Cheers!
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smart51
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 07:13 AM |
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Don't ignore the better mid range.
I have a 98 carbed R1. It is very fast above 5000 RPM. 3000 - 5000 is OK for cruising but doesn't have much pull and can sound strained going
up hill or with your foot down in high gear. Below 3000? Forget it except in 1st. Remember that the top end is as good or slightly better on a FI
engine.
2004 engines and onwards have an extra 2000 revs and this is where all the extra power is. From the torque curves I have seen, they have less low
range pull than the earlier engines and 1st gear is taller. The higher red line means you'll need more silencing for SVA and track days.
That said, I regularly get to 12000 RPM and wish I had a few more
P.S. I got a carbed engine because it was really cheap!
[Edited on 30-8-2006 by smart51]
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 04:18 PM |
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I didnt say easier to set up, I said cheaper to set up!
If you have a Powercommander on an EFI engine you can load up a base map and make changes yourself to individual parts of the map to get it through
SVA etc, obviously you can't do this with carbs so easily or so accurately.
[Edited on 30/8/06 by ChrisGamlin]
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StevieB
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 04:45 PM |
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Still...
Cheaper!
I'd been working on the principle of having the basics of the easy stuff to replace (calipers, uprights etc.), but getting the best I can afford
for the big stuff (chassis, engine etc.). I guess it comes down to what I can get for my money at the time.
Steve
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Coose
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 08:02 PM |
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I think you need a trip out in my car Steve.... 
Spin 'er off Well...
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StevieB
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 08:32 PM |
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As long as you're more sensible than Jacko! Never been that fast down that particular road before he took me for a quick spin in his 7 (not so
fast at the moment though!).
Then he let me drive it, and I spent most of the time stalled in the middle of the A19 trying to pull out of my estate (something about trying to pull
away in second gear or something?)
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DIY Si
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 08:40 PM |
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Getting off the line in 2nd is easy, if you have one of the bigger engines! Not sure with an R1 as I've never driven one. I'm forever
forgetting which gear I'm in and haven't stalled mine in weeks!
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 08:52 PM |
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Mine is OK pulling away in 2nd if you forget to change into 1st before pulling away, you can even pull away in 1st without having to touch the
throttle at all (diesel style) although I suspect that trick would be a bit trickier on carbs, and possibly a bit trickier without the Barnett clutch
conversion which is meant to give a slightly more linear pedal (although never tried a standard one).
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Coose
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 07:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
As long as you're more sensible than Jacko! Never been that fast down that particular road before he took me for a quick spin in his 7 (not so
fast at the moment though!).
Then he let me drive it, and I spent most of the time stalled in the middle of the A19 trying to pull out of my estate (something about trying to pull
away in second gear or something?)
Ahhh, ummmmm...... When I have driven his car with him in also, he has had a tendency to shout very loudly in my ear something about slowing down!?!
I've always blamed exhaust/induction noise for not being able to hear him.....
It's quite hard work (and on the clutch also) trying to pull away in second in a 'Blade (for those who don't know, the car in
question is a Lotus 7 S2 from 1960 - a gorgeous yet now immobile piece of kit. It's currently a triple after literally spitting a rod out of the
crankcase!  ). 1st is normally better!
Chris - I have no problem at all with (what I assume is) a stock clutch. I've never had the cover off it so I don't know what's in
there, but it's been 'well used' in the last 4500 miles and is still going strong! I'll have a peek at it this winter though,
and it may get new plates (depending on condition) and a race kit spring but that'll be it! 
Spin 'er off Well...
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StevieB
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 07:46 AM |
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The pulling away in second gear was an unintentional thing - the gearbox was the other way around to my Roadster, so when I assumed I'd put it
into 1st from neutral, I'd pushed it the other way.
No wonder I thought it was strange when Mark said to pull away with just the tickover revs, just to end up stalling every time.
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Coose
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 07:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
The pulling away in second gear was an unintentional thing - the gearbox was the other way around to my Roadster, so when I assumed I'd put it
into 1st from neutral, I'd pushed it the other way.
No wonder I thought it was strange when Mark said to pull away with just the tickover revs, just to end up stalling every time.
Ooops! That's the only concern of letting other people drive a BEC - the fear of them changing gear the wrong way! At least you learn't in
the safest manner possible!
p.s. Mechanical paddle shifts are gerrrreat!
Spin 'er off Well...
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StevieB
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 08:06 AM |
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I've got a set of paddle shifts being manufactured at MK right now! I think they're cable rather than solid rod operated as well.
It's nice to have shiney things!
All I need to do now is figure out how to get the R1 clocks, original switchgear and paddles shifts aroundthe steering wheel - then it's getting
a small patch of carbon fibre as a binnacle and that's it for the dash (Mr J and myself spent a mornibng of First Engineering's time
working on the basic design!)
PS - Looking for a set of old sierra wheels to use as build wheels (depending on price!) if anyone's got soem lying around?
[Edited on 31/8/06 by StevieB]
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Coose
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 10:01 AM |
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quote:
All I need to do now is figure out how to get the R1 clocks, original switchgear and paddles shifts aroundthe steering wheel - then it's getting
a small patch of carbon fibre as a binnacle and that's it for the dash (Mr J and myself spent a mornibng of First Engineering's time
working on the basic design!)
Don't put the clocks behind the wheel as you won't be able to see them - mine are in the centre and they're absolutely fine! You
learn when to change gear, and the idiot lights make themselves known if they come on.... If you feel the need to look at the speedo, then you'd
be making a conscious effort anyway!
Hope this helps....
Spin 'er off Well...
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StevieB
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 10:38 AM |
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I'd been starting to think that way anyway - it's all well and good on paper, but once you measure all of the components, it's a bit
of a squeeze!
I was still thinking of doing something with the R1 switchgear though - mounted on the tunnel on a sort of aircraft style control (could be an SVA
fail?)
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Coose
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 11:13 AM |
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Can't really help you there. I've got switches scattered about on the dashboard that would probably fail SVA as they're within 15
miles of the steering wheel or something!
Others should be able to point you in the right direction there.....
Spin 'er off Well...
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StevieB
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 11:17 AM |
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I actually bought the SVA manual - might as well open that apcket it came in!
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 1/9/06 at 10:11 AM |
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look in my photo album
paddle shift
r1 clocks
and savage switches
all SVA passed as is
chris
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Ferrino
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| posted on 1/9/06 at 10:50 AM |
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My contribution to the carb vs. EFI discussion is not to assume bike carbs are anything like Webers used on X-flows/Pintos/Zetecs etc.... I've
never known of anyone who has been entirely happy with their Weber config. and there seems to be a lack of professionals who really know how to set
them up correctly. But these dinky little Mikuni CV jobbies on the R1 really are fit-and-forget (after rejetting), with the occasional balancing (but
you have to balance TBs too, right?). What do any of the more experienced carbed BEC owners think?
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Coose
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| posted on 3/9/06 at 08:41 PM |
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Ferrino is absolutely right - I couldn't have put it better myself!
Spin 'er off Well...
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StevieB
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| posted on 4/9/06 at 11:41 AM |
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Carbs it'll be then - cheeper to buy the engine, cheaper to set up and, to be honest, you can't beat being able to tweek carbs over having
to use electronic gizmo's on any engine - it's just more fun!
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Coose
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| posted on 4/9/06 at 05:29 PM |
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And have a peek at these for the prettiest carbs you will ever see (and probably the most expensive - about £1000 + theft! )
They're in a box in my garage, awaiting me getting around to trying them....
Spin 'er off Well...
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StevieB
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| posted on 4/9/06 at 05:35 PM |
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Very nice - but for the money, I'll have to stick with the standard ones I think
I think I'll bolt a spirit level to my bulk head too - it looks good!
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Coose
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| posted on 4/9/06 at 06:13 PM |
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Ah, I never said that I paid that for 'em though!
Every car should have a spirit level fitted. Luckily, that was a magnetic one!
Spin 'er off Well...
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