RazMan
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| posted on 19/10/06 at 08:57 PM |
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Supercharger choices
I've been thinking about next year's project and fancy strapping on supercharger to my V6 Duratec. I've only got limited knowledge
about these and came across the Rotrex Range and wondered what you guys thought of them. They seem to be a very
compact and efficient centrifugal design which takes much less power to create useful amounts of boost.
Discuss 
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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UncleFista
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| posted on 19/10/06 at 09:08 PM |
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JB (John Beardmore) is looking into adding a supercharger to his minor.
He's documenting his homework on HIS SITE
HTH
Tony Bond / UncleFista
Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...
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thomas4age
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| posted on 19/10/06 at 09:35 PM |
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Rotrex any time!
these are defenatly the most efficient types of superchargers in the world at the moment. I'm not related in roulunds or rotrex in anyway, but I
know them for years, first experience was in a megane coupe 2.0 16v with a then called sp15 on it, that was frekking quick with very very low boost,
and even lower intake temps.
absolutly brilliant and in use by every selfrespecting tuning company in the world, Jackson racing, TTS, etc etc
btw did you know that a koeningsegg has 2 Rotrex C30 chargers alongside it's engine??? If that doesnt count for best availeble I don't
know what does anymore.
Go for it brilliant stuff! and the sound is very nice indeed
grtz Thomas
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 19/10/06 at 10:14 PM |
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The Rotrex is a centirfugal blower though, so boost delivery will be more like a turbo than a traditional positive displacement supercharger.
Essentialy you wouldn't get full boost from low RPM, though you shouldn't get the lag that turbo's give.
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Kissy
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 07:01 AM |
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Bimbleuk on here is fitting a Rotrax to his 4AGE - from what I could see he is doing a proper job, and has done his homework.
The nice thing about the rotrax is that it doesn't run out of puff in the way a vane type s/c does, it's also super compact.
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 07:10 AM |
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quote:
Essentialy you wouldn't get full boost from low RPM, though you shouldn't get the lag that turbo's give.
Which is exactly why I have one sat near me waiting to go on my kit car. I don't want loads of bottom end torque where I can't use it and
then suffer at the top because a roots for example is less efficient the faster it turns.
More so if you have a V6 as you should already have a load of grunt at low RPM.
Speak to GMC Motorsport or TTS for your requirements as they both have lots of experience with fitting them. They'll probably advise fitting an
SC30-94 which'll cost around £1400 including the oil lines, cooler and resorvoir.
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RazMan
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 08:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bimbleuk
I don't want loads of bottom end torque where I can't use it and then suffer at the top because a roots for example is less efficient the
faster it turns.
More so if you have a V6 as you should already have a load of grunt at low RPM.
Speak to GMC Motorsport or TTS for your requirements as they both have lots of experience with fitting them. They'll probably advise fitting an
SC30-94 which'll cost around £1400 including the oil lines, cooler and resorvoir.
My thoughts exactly - who needs more torque in a car which weighs 750kg anyway!
That price is very reasonable when you consider the power gains - looks like 300bhp is realistic ...... which is nice.
Thanks for the tips - I'll give GMC a prod and see what they recommend
[Edited on 20-10-06 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 09:15 AM |
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I personally don't like "elastic band" power delivery that turbochargers, and the rotrex type blowers, deliver.
What you can do is what Turbo Technics among others have done, which is to vastly overgear the centrifugal blower so you get lots of boost from low
revs, then use a variable speed drive to limit revs to a fixed drive ratio above a certain rpm, but obviously this is more complex.
Torotrak have developed a variator cartridge to do just this job, which is wired into the ECU and varies supercharger drive ratio according to torque
demand, of course here it helps that the vehicle itself uses the torotrak drive which varies the transmission raitio to the wheels dependent on torque
demand too.......all amazing and great stuff!!
Personally, give me an Eaton positive displacement blower any day, much easier to size etc and nice linear delivery.
I can see the benefit of the rotrex (have looked at using one myself) but settled for eaton M62 instead.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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RazMan
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 10:05 AM |
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I know what you mean about the 'elastic band' thing. Having run Garrett turbos on my old Nissan at fairly high boost levels they are
frustrating because you get all the power at the top end (after the inevitable lag) and then before you know it you are bouncing off the rev limiter
..... then you change gear and the whole process starts over again.
As I will not be running high boost (just a few psi) I should get a fairly mild mannered, power delivery from midrange to redline (but with no lag)
which is where I want it.
I was attracted to the Rotrex due to its small size (there is very little room around my V6) and I am hoping to get a belt running from the old water
pump pulley. This would keep all the connections very close to the throttle body and I might find room for an intercooler too.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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DIY Si
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 10:06 AM |
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Whilst I too can see the advantage of what is basically a belt driven turbo, I quite like the look of
Whipple blowers. They seem to give extra power all over the place. Can't
seem to find out how much they cost though.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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iank
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 10:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
Whilst I too can see the advantage of what is basically a belt driven turbo, I quite like the look of
Whipple blowers. They seem to give extra power all over the place. Can't
seem to find out how much they cost though.
JB seems to be favouring those at the moment, and has found a swedish company (Lysholm) that supplys the same type for the GT40.
http://www.opcon.se/index.asp?langID=1&cID=14&spage=1
No prices on the site, but an email should hopefully give you a uk dealer.
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nitram38
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 11:51 AM |
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Found These Electric SuperChargers
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irvined
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 11:52 AM |
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Not sure if its any help, but Eaton blowers come up on Ebay quite often as they are fitted as standard to the new mini, and seem to be removed at some
point in the tuning process.
They look fairly small so might be a cheap option?
http://irvined.blogspot.com
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RazMan
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 12:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
Found These Electric SuperChargers
The early versions of these things were regarded as nothing but a chavvy joke (along with fake turbo noises) and I have yet to see any tests which
will convince me otherwise ......... but who knows what will happen if the idea is developed I did see a video clip of a dyno run using an electric
leaf blower though! 
[Edited on 20-10-06 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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G3OFF
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 03:09 PM |
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not exactley on topic.. but just got a supercharger kit for my V8... anyone know how to setup the seprate oil pump for the charger.. there are two oil
connectors.. but not sure what to do with them..
any help much appreciated..
no such thing as to much power......
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DIY Si
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 03:26 PM |
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The blowers from the new mini aren't actually Eaton jobies. They are similar, but not genuine items, or so I've been told.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 04:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
The blowers from the new mini aren't actually Eaton jobies. They are similar, but not genuine items, or so I've been told.
They are genuine Eaton blowers AFAIK, but not exactly the same as the "datasheet" M45 unit. i.e. it was made by Eaton specificaly for BMW
rather than being one of their generic units.
[Edited on 20/10/06 by MikeRJ]
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thomas4age
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 11:09 PM |
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Defenatly eaton make.
those go pretty cheap on ebay btw so if it needs to be locost one would be a good option.
i would go rotrex anytime. there's a guy over here running one on his zetec in a westy that thing has the smoothest torque curve I've ever
seen, and goes like fekkin stink.
I would like one on my 20v but doubt that the rear axle's diff will hold out with that!
grtz Thomas
come to think about it, why not have 2 on a 1uzfe toy v8....... hmmm do I smell 800hp there?
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 22/10/06 at 06:17 AM |
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Nothing wrong with the whipple or any other modern twin screw supercharger. Get a whipple from the US and it'll be cheaper than the Rotrex. Yep
they have the advantage of low end and high end efficiency. Again though you'll have a lot of bottom end torque to control. You could probably
size the unit to limit this. Keep the boost low and you don't really need an intercooler either just bolt it directly to the inlet manifold.
Only thing to note is that as its an internal compression design if its turning then its working and using some power from the engine all the time.
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zilspeed
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| posted on 22/10/06 at 09:30 AM |
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The whipple sounds identical to the Sprintex which certainly used to be made up here in Scotland by Fleming Thermodynamics. Dan Wright the
bloke's name was if I remember correctly.
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grantmac
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| posted on 22/10/06 at 03:22 PM |
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You could source the Whipple from a Mazda Millenia S. They are a very good size for a 2.5-3.0L V6 and come up on ebay every now and then. The whole
Millenia motor would probably cost less than a Rotrex.
Grant
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RazMan
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| posted on 22/10/06 at 10:27 PM |
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Thanks for the tip Grant 
I think it is called the Xedos 9 in Europe and not exactly common but worth a search.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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thomas4age
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 12:08 AM |
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I doubt that the supercharged millenia motor was ever brought to europe in the Xedos, we only have the NA v6 version over here.
Speedon in holland will probably be able to hook you up with one, the go to the UK very often and can proably bring it somewhere closeby enough,
contact them over here www.speedon.nl
grtz Thomas
(just a happy custumour)
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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02GF74
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 09:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
Found These Electric SuperChargers
are these the ones on ebay that claim 20% or so?
I'm sure I posted in here about them; I had my doubts and was it was confirmed; don't waste your money.
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