02GF74
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 01:25 PM |
|
|
a darrenw type question, this time about crossflow
Intend to up from 1300 crossflow to somethingtht will give me 150 bhp.
Despite having 2 zetec (oh dear  ), I have ruled those out and will be sticking to crossflow, 1700 ish. Will be keeping 4-2-1 exhaust and twin
delorto 40s but may go to bike TBs.
1. To get 150 bhp, what sort of mods (& costs) are involved?
2. Does the crank need special treatment other than balancing?
3. Will 1300 cc flywheel be lighter than 1600?
4. Cam choice?
5. Head mods?
6. Can a 1300 be fitted with 1600 crank? I know that shorter con-rods are needed but will they be ££££, and is there enough cylinder wall for it?
(assume not otherwise Ford would not make a taller block?)
7. What is approx. cost of rebore (to max. bore diameter)?: + pistons.
8. A tuning book, not the vizzard, mentions that going beyond 1720 cc requires liners or someting like that (damn, should I have remembered the
correct terms) - anyone know about that?
9. Been told chambered head is better for getting more horses, anyone confirm this?
Buget is £ 500 so probably optimistic (but maybe something on ebay can be used as a starting point).
|
|
|
|
|
ned
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 01:30 PM |
|
|
I don't know much about xflow's, but I gather you're better off with a 1600 block as it's taller and the rod angles are much
better than the 1300 would be.
Ned.
for cost my vx 2ltr was about £80iirc for +2mm rebore (to 2.1) and acid clean/dip.
[Edited on 12/1/07 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
|
|
|
iank
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 01:54 PM |
|
|
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/cflow.htm
150 will be very hard and expensive.
|
|
|
nitram38
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 01:57 PM |
|
|
A 1600 engine with 1300GT pistons, fast road cam and 40's will only give you around 110- 125BHP.
|
|
|
quick n stuff
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 01:59 PM |
|
|
hi you will not get 150 bhp out of a 1600 xflow and pass the sva emissions test (not on a £500 pound budget eneyway). infact for £150 pound you will
get nothing like 150 bhp you will need £1500.
i would not use the xflow engine and go for a toyota 4age engine if you get one out of a corolla gts (1989 to 1992) thay had 130 bhp to start with.
they are about the same size weight.
ok priceing
1) a good 4age engine costs about £200 pound with wires and brain
2) a set of cams £360 (264 degrees hks)
3)remap ecu on roling road £150 to £200
this will give you a solid 150 -160 bhp (more like 150 with old rings and worn valve guides and such)
this engine will give you a better power dilivery than any xflow.
[Edited on 12/1/07 by quick n stuff]
[Edited on 12/1/07 by quick n stuff]
|
|
|
nitram38
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:02 PM |
|
|
If you are going to spend £1500, buy an R1 injection 05. 182BHP as standard
|
|
|
DarrenW
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:13 PM |
|
|
Thats not really a darrenw type question - you have a budget!!!!!!
infamous at last!
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:19 PM |
|
|
ah, I forgot, should have said no BECs; 4age remotely but still thnk crossflow is the way.
emissions are not relevant - hopefully will be passed before my 6 mths retest time is up ... and that is just over 2 months  where does the time
go....?
added: it is not a question of getting max amount off power but something that slots in without any fuss; reasoning may be flawed but don't
want bonnet bumps and the such.
ok, 150 may be optimistic but ......
[Edited on 12/1/07 by 02GF74]
|
|
|
iank
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:22 PM |
|
|
Would be cheaper to go CVH (1.6 not 1.8) or even Zetec if you really want/need 150bhp and any drivability.
|
|
|
quick n stuff
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:26 PM |
|
|
you will still need a minimum of £1500 pound to get 150 bhp
|
|
|
procomp
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:29 PM |
|
|
Hi no belhousing mentioned for the 4ag conversion above. Just drop a 2L zetec straight in and get the 165 bhp and a good spread of tourque. For
ignition go with the mega watsit if on a budget no special parts required all been done by many people get an early silver top so you meet the less
stringent emmisions.
To get a crossflow up to 150/160 bhp and reliable realisticaly budget for 2k +. This would be of simalar spec to the crossflows that run in the 750
kits not the locost as they are 1300cc.
cheers matt
PS. Should also mention the vx 2l 16v although NS DEV will be here soon to point you in the right direction with one of them. And no doubt that one of
the HELLFIRE'S will also be here to suggest that any thing other than a bec is just not allowed. Altho i think some one above beat them to it
this time.
[Edited on 12/1/07 by procomp]
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:30 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
Thats not really a darrenw type question - you have a budget!!!!!!
budget - LOL!! we all know that the figure we plan to spend doesn't really match up with was spent. havent' decided ifthe budget include
the sale of the other engines, 3 of or not....
|
|
|
quick n stuff
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:33 PM |
|
|
you can get 150 bhp out of a cvh and pass the emitions but it will still cost mega bucks.
some 1.8 zetec have got 130 bhp as standard and will cost about the same as a 4age to get 150bhp and the power curve will be less revy but it is a
heavier and bigger unit.
|
|
|
iank
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:34 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi no belhousing mentioned for the 4ag conversion above. Just drop a 2L zetec straight in and get the 165 bhp and a good spread of tourque. For
ignition go with the mega watsit if on a budget no special parts required all been done by many people get an early silver top so you meet the less
stringent emmisions.
To get a crossflow up to 150/160 bhp and reliable realisticaly budget for 2k +. This would be of simalar spec to the crossflows that run in the 750
kits not the locost as they are 1300cc.
cheers matt
I'd guess these are also full race engines, so a PITA on the road and engine rebuilds every few 1000 miles?
[Edited on 12/1/07 by iank]
|
|
|
iank
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:37 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by quick n stuff
you can get 150 bhp out of a cvh and pass the emitions but it will still cost mega bucks.
some 1.8 zetec have got 130 bhp as standard and will cost about the same as a 4age to get 150bhp and the power curve will be less revy but it is a
heavier and bigger unit.
But doesn't require a gearbox adaptor costing a few hundred £. I'd say the 2L Zetec would be favourite from a cost + complexity point of
view.
Any reason for the 150bhp value BTW?
|
|
|
quick n stuff
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:39 PM |
|
|
the post was 150 bhp from a crossflow
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:40 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by iank
Any reason for the 150bhp value BTW?
no valid reason other than that power should be more than enough for my driving ability, and is achievable on the crossflow (they can reach 200 but
that would add a 0 to the budget and not for road use). seems a reasonable number that is about double of 1300 in standard form.
|
|
|
procomp
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:41 PM |
|
|
Ah the good old CVH yep they can be taken upto 160bhp in 1600 form but only two companys capable of doing it properly. And they were costing £2700 min
when we were doing them some years ago so probably more like £3000 min now.
So just no point now we have the zetec .
cheers matt
|
|
|
David Jenkins
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:45 PM |
|
|
I have a 1660cc crossflow, which suits me down to the ground. It puts out around 100BHP with just minor upgrades and makes my car go plenty fast. I
also love the old-fashioned noise it makes.
However, if I wanted a lot more power I wouldn't waste my money on this engine, much as I love it. My personal preference would be for a Toyota
4-AGE or, if I was feeling flush, a Duratec. Both will be far more modern, give loads of power in standard form, and have plenty of scope for
improvement without massive investment.
cheers,
David
|
|
|
quick n stuff
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 02:49 PM |
|
|
just thort rs tubo engine easy and cheep to get 160 bhp (may be a bit tricky geting a good one thow) lighter than a zetec lol
but from a cost poit of veiw the zetec is a good engine its not a bad tuning as well.
|
|
|
iank
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 03:01 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by iank
Any reason for the 150bhp value BTW?
no valid reason other than that power should be more than enough for my driving ability, and is achievable on the crossflow (they can reach 200 but
that would add a 0 to the budget and not for road use). seems a reasonable number that is about double of 1300 in standard form.
I don't believe there are any normally aspirated 200bhp crossflows even race engines, though there are a lot of pub numbers chucked about.
200bhp would be 120bhp per litre for a 1700. Ballpark for a good modern 16v is 100, 120 is BEC territory.
|
|
|
quick n stuff
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 03:05 PM |
|
|
yep 180bhp MAX with super trooper mega stupa bucks.
|
|
|
MikeR
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 04:05 PM |
|
|
I've got an x/f AX block sat in my garage. Make me a silly offer (and collect) and its yours....
Procomp should give an idea of what one is worth.
|
|
|
coozer
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 05:16 PM |
|
|
Hmm, nice to see Darrenw doesn't have a budget.
HELLO THERE MARRA 
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
|
|
|
Craig81
|
| posted on 12/1/07 at 05:22 PM |
|
|
not really sure of the spec of my 1600 crossflow but it has been on a rolling road twice and both times produced a usable 156bhp on 45 webbers. It
also passed the sva emissions no trouble. Good old crossflows!!
|
|
|
