dickie b
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 02:15 PM |
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Duratec V6 - in line fitment?
Afternoon chaps
I am having a lunchtime muse over my next project and the thinking so far is an AGM WLR with a V6 motor up front.
Alfa V6 was the initial choice, but mating it to an in-line box sounds a bit of a bellhousing headache. Sticking with Ford, the aluminium Duratec V6
is an option and seems a fairly cheap (and modern) power plant.
Morgan are now fitting these, but has anyone done this locost-style using ford parts bin stuff? Or are the Duratecs just overly heavy for a V6?
cheers all, your advice on what to consider is most appreciated.
Richard
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kikiturbo
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 02:38 PM |
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dig up an alfa 75, V6 preferably, that will give you a rear mounted gearbox/diff transaxle with LSD, and an old V6 engine (2.5 or 3 litre if you are
lucky...)
use the engine for parts (inline sump and belhousing) + prop... and buy a transversly mounted 3.0 litre V6 or 2.0 turbo or 3.0 24V or 3.2 24V
(depending on the budget) from an alfa 164/166/156/147 GTA.
any 75 has a rear transaxle, but the more powerfull models have an LSD and V6 models have all parts you need....
this will give you an alfa solution... 
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ned
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 02:40 PM |
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I don't know that i've ever conclusively heard whether they're the same bolt pattern as an mt75/type 9 or a duratec he.
Essentially the same basic engine as the jag v6 lump in 3ltr guise (think the heads and other bits may differ) Juno sportscars/mountune have built
reliable 400bhp+ natasp versions for britsports.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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iank
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 02:45 PM |
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Have a search on here for WLR, there were some recent comments about poor handling and lack of factory backup.
The Duratec V6 is actually a Mazda engine (or at least a joint effort) and doesn't bolt to RWD gearboxes in the same simple way as older Zetec
and earlier engines, so similar headaches to the alfa.
Morgan use these people http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=9903
Duratec being all aluminium is a relatively light IIRC it's similar to a Zetec.
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dickie b
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 04:02 PM |
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Thanks for the info - the alfa 75 route is not a bad one, although dont really want to start moving the chassis around to get the rear box & diff
lump in.
Had a 75 once and although a cracking car (2.0 twinspark) the gear change was never exactly what you could call precise!
Bit concerned about the comments regarding the handling. Did read somewhere about a lack of self-centering steering, but was not aware of any other
problem, especially as chassis was born out of a MK Indy. A test drive is on the cards.
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miegru
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 04:04 PM |
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The Duratec V6 is actually only a little bit heavier than the 4 cylinder. If you contact the Dutch Westield dealer he can give you the details. He has
buildt several Duratec V6's in a westfield for customers.
I haven't driven one but spoke to two owners; both were very enthousiastic about the performance.
Apparently the bellhousing is quite simple: if you take the front gearbox casing of a Ford transit with a RWD MT75 box you can fit the other half of
an MT75 box with ratios better suited to a seven.
In the Netherlands there are not so many RWD-Transits so usually he buys the front casing new. In the UK that shouldn't be a problem though.
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dickie b
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 04:24 PM |
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nice one Miegru - thought there must be a fairly straightforward way of doing it.
The 'dutch connection' will get me in touch with the right people too.
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iank
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 04:42 PM |
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This is the thread I remembered
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=58217
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Johnmor
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 06:14 PM |
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ALFA 90
The Alfa 90 had a conventional rear drive with gearbox mounted to the engine. I have an Auto box for one but thats not ideal.
However i have a Alfa v6 mounted to a type 9 ford in my Viento. Had to make a conversion plate and used the bellhousing from an alfa 164.
Plate cost around £350 to get made to my spec.
However , because the gearbox on the 164 is common to most alfa engines. this plate will allow connection to all alfa V6 engines as long as you use
the bell housing.
Not such a big deal but, makes it the only one I know of.
The sound track is brill!!!
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dickie b
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 07:37 PM |
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hmm. still love the alfa v6 noise though and Ill bet the ford wont sound half as good. Alfa 90 eh?
Bit concerned about the WLR thread as posted. Still, you cant judge a car on just one anecdote, especially as the plan is not to build an on-the-limit
competition car.
More often these cars benefit from development through being sold anyway, but worth asking the questions to AGM when the time comes.
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miegru
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 08:16 PM |
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Then go for the Alfa!
I was nervous when I needed a bellhousing between my Audi and my type9 box. Turned out to be simple.
Van Kronenburg made a bellhouse for me in 90minutes!
They took an old Audi gearbox casing (with bellhouse intergrated) that fitted my engine. Since Audi has a wide choice I spend some time choosing the
donor-casing (correct starterposition and as slim design as possible).
They then checked the spline pattern on the clutch. Turned out ford uses the same as audi so no problem. Otherwise you might have to machine the
flywheel to accept a clutchplate that fits the gearbox spline pattern).
The gearbox case was secured on a CNC machine (nothing digital or fancy; just a good old manual machine) engine side down. The box was machined down
to the correct height.
Next step was to weld a plate onto the machine side. Audi uses aluminium gearbox cases so a 15mm alu plate was used.
The complete part was again secured to the CNC machine. By using the engine mounting pattern as a reference the holes for the gearbox were machined
into the plate.
Only 90 minutes and dead accurate!
Next step was making it loop pretty and finishing all welds. But that last part can be done by you.
If you don't know anyone who can do this I advise to check with an engine tuner with a engine dynamometer. They need to do this all the time in
order to get different engines attached to their dynamometer.
Good luck!
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coozer
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 09:21 PM |
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Out of one of these....
 
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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coozer
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 09:22 PM |
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Here it is...
 
Rescued attachment Viper Engine.jpg
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 15/1/07 at 11:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
Have a search on here for WLR, there were some recent comments about poor handling and lack of factory backup.
The Duratec V6 is actually a Mazda engine (or at least a joint effort)
Most of the engineering input for the V6 Duratec actualy came from Porsche.
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 16/1/07 at 09:17 AM |
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Mazda and Yamaha actually, by all accounts. As with the Zetec 'S' family of engines.
Porsche do the work for VAG on occasion, and SEAT, who used to put the Porsche name on their engines.
Cheers,
Syd.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 16/1/07 at 12:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Syd Bridge
Mazda and Yamaha actually, by all accounts. As with the Zetec 'S' family of engines.
Porsche do the work for VAG on occasion, and SEAT, who used to put the Porsche name on their engines.
Cheers,
Syd.
Only for the 4 cylinder variants. The 6 cylinder Duratecs were originaly based on a Porsche design:
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/kitcar/kb.php?aid=32
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 16/1/07 at 05:10 PM |
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You read it on the internet, so it must be true!
The engineers who worked on it must have lied to me.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 16/1/07 at 08:05 PM |
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Then perhaps you could edit the wiki article to prevent further misinformation spreading!
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