nitram38
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 10:07 AM |
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Adriam Flux, Let this be a lesson !
I belong to the Bec yahoo users and I recieved this email today from Pete Beckett. Hopefully Pete won't mind me posting it here.
This really applies to those wishing to insure their cars to get to sva.
A similar thing happened to me as AF failed to tell me about this exclusion before I took out my policy.
Luckily I post dated the insurance start and when I found out about this exclusion I cancelled my insurance.
I eventually insured with Footman James who do not do this sort of thing.
Pete was not so lucky..............
Just so you guys know..
They cancelled my insurance (with no refund of course) because I
haven't yet been able to put the car in for its SVA. That's works
out £339.15 for two road journeys (to garages to have work done on
the car I hasten to add, nothing illegal).
When the insurance certificate arrived it came with a letter
demanding some additional documentation (these were additional
demands not mentioned when I bought the insurance) They demanded i)
An independent valuation ii) Six recent photos iii)Proof that a
certified immobiliser is fitted iv) most outrageously a Supplementary
form (that they wanted me to fill in details of any other vehicles I
own and when their insurance is due for renewal, bloody cheek) and v)
the Registration number
So getting the pictures taken and delivered as well as getting a
valuation all cost extra money. When I phoned and informed them I
would not have a registration number as the SVA test appointment is
still a month away, the charming girl on the other end of the phone
informed me that returning the pictures and valuation were optional.
They made me spend money and time getting documentation they weren't
really bothered about.
Since I was on the phone I had just been informed that they were
going to cancel my insurance I asked if the insurance was going to be
active over this weekend so that I could take the car to have its
headlamps aligned. I was then informed that it is illegal to drive a
car insured on its chassis number to anywhere other than the SVA
centre; I informed them that they were wrong. I searched out the
relevant t documentation from the DVLA web site and emailed it to
them, who responded with a letter confirming that I could drive to a
garage to have work done. I really like the condescending nature of
their letter, particularly the phrase "We apologise that you received
conflicting information to the above when you called our customer
service department". By conflicting information I can only assume
they mean the conflict between what they told me and the truth. I
would expect a company that specialises in kit car insurance to be
more knowledgeable about the law with regard to kit cars.
I've now received a letter demanding that I return my insurance
certificate and cover note. It actually informs me in bold type that
I will be committing a serious offence if I don't return them.
Naturally they didn't supply a prepaid envelope, so that that leaves
me to pay the postage. Whilst the cost of a stamp is insignificant
it will pain me to spend a single extra penny on that company.
So, what do you all think their tag line of "Modern approach,
Traditional values" actually means?
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Hellfire
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 10:26 AM |
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As all documents are supposed to be read through before agreeing to them, I sorry but the onus is really upon you to read before you sign (so to
speak). We have excellent experience with AF as I know other people have.
Maybe they are getting too big for their bootes now, as a result they should lose business. As your post suggests, the Rep on the line that you spoke
to was perhaps a little arrogant (not good for business) but ultimately they are there to make money so will stretch whatever they can to get more
money... I will personally will make AF aware of this posting....
Steve
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nitram38
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 10:37 AM |
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Sorry but my cover note did not mention this exclusion and it was only talking on here that I found out.
AF only issue a standard covernote until they have a Reg.
As I said for those insuring their cars before sva, AF only give you 30 days with a possible 15 days extention (if you pay more) to provide a
registration.
Swiping the whole premium is definitely underhand and just pure greed, especially it they don't tell you when you take out your insurance or
put it on your covernote etc.
FJ do not have this exclusion as I am sure lots of other companies too.
Incidentally, both policies I had/have were with NIG so it is not the insurance company's exclusion, it is AF's own policy.
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owelly
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 11:05 AM |
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I'm interested in the document that tells you that a vehicle can be driven to a garage to have work done. As I see it, you can drive to an MoT
station (provided it is prebooked with the car details and your details in the garage diary) and then drive it home (unless the garage deems in unfit
to drive).
You can also drive it to and from a SVA test.
I thought that they were the only exceptions to driving an unreg'd/unMoT'd car.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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ReMan
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 02:14 PM |
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I read this too on the BEC group a little earlier, I have just renewed my insurance with them, so was dissapointed to say the least.
I am and was well aware of the clause of having SVA/register within a month when I first insured with them last year, but I'm not sure it was
made clear they would take the whole premium if I failed, else I may have thought more than twice before using them at all.
Cancel the insurance, yes, just as you would have the option to do, and make a reasonabl business deduction for it, yes, but as said this
"practice" is tantamount to theft. I wondewr how they would fare if the customer demanded all claims be settled within 30 days.
My advice would be vote with your feet and voice, unfortunatly as is often the case, when they otherwise offer the best price, is is a difficult
decision to make.
As far as the commentregarding the legality of driving to repair centres pre-SVA .
I for one would be very interested to see this in writing, as the SVA centres can't even agree wether you can drive to the test or not!!
Colin
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 02:30 PM |
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I got caught by this, after my car didn't reach it's first SVA. I was about to lose the entire premium of around £120, but I rang them up
and did a bit of grovelling. Ended up with £75 credit against the next policy I bought with them.
In my case, I knew what the terms were when I took out the policy, and I lost out due to my own problems. It hurt, but I thought that I'd made
the best of bad circumstances.
It's worth remembering that it's NOT Adrian Flux who applies these rules - it's the insurance underwriters they use. In my case,
A.F. were as embarrassed as much I was annoyed!
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 03:24 PM |
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I have heard of taking an "admin fee" usually anything up to £75ish, but to keep the whole premium when they have not provided the cover
for the full year is a DISGRACE! Over £300 for what? That sounds very very underhand.
I would not stand for it, and would be interested to hear what the financial services ombudsmen (who also cover insurance) have to say about this - if
you are not happy then here are some contact details for you.
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumer/complaints.htm
I understand the responsibilty lies with the owner to read through things carefully, but you expect REASONABLE behavior from a company covered by a
governing body.
Keep us posted.
[Edited on 5/8/07 by Dangle_kt]
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nitram38
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 03:38 PM |
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As I said before, I was offered insurance through AF to an underwriter company called NIG.
I was sold the same poilicy through FJ.
There was no 30 day clause with NIG through FJ, so why was it so through AF?
I think that you will not find it to be NIG's policy but AF's own.
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caber
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 04:05 PM |
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Bit of an aside but if this was my insurer i would return the cover note by post attached to a brick without a stamp. They would then have to pay huge
amount in postage!
Caber
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John.Taylor
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 05:41 PM |
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I just swapped my wifes Golf Mk4 from Direct Line to Adrian Flux and it's been nothing but hastle all the way.
First they sent the insurance policy with incorrect details, such as stating that it has an alarm and immobiliser even though I told them that it
didn't - being the Sdi it doesn't even have central locking!
I've been trying to get them to re-send the policy saying that it doesn't and every time I phone they say they'll send it straight
away but I'm still waiting.
Then they said they wanted proof of no claims which I posted, but they didn't receive, so sent me a snotty letter. I phoned them up and got the
fax number, resent it and got a delivery conformation, phoned a fer days later and they still hadn't recieved it. I then sent it four times,
one after the other, got a fac confirmation and phoned again to find they still hadn't recieved it so insisted that they take the details over
the phone which "they're not supposed to do" but it worked.
I'm still awaiting my revised insurance policy without alarm/immobiliser though!!!!
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shortie
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| posted on 5/8/07 at 07:18 PM |
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If any of the documentation you had stated the 30 day clause then you will have problems even by going through the Ombudsman.
If it did not state anywhere in the documents you were sent about the 30 day rule then get the Ombudsman involved.
You must write to Adrian Flux first stating that you disagree with their descision and want them to refund your money.
You will need a 'Final descision letter' from them before you can involve the ombudsman.
Then fill in all the ombudsman forms and send all the documentation including the final response letter to the ombudsman stating your complaint.
You will have to wait about 8 weeks for the Ombudsman to deal with it and make a descision, bear in mind though that if it goes against you then the
descision will have been made by an Ombudsmans assistant and you can write back and insist it is dealt with by an actual Ombudsman, this will then go
to the actual Ombudsman but bear in mind you will have to wait up to 6 months for a descision.
HTH,
Rich.
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BKLOCO
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 10:39 AM |
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I have had nothing but excellent service from A. F.
They were more competitive than F. J. and much more helpful and courteous.
I would respectfully suggest that you need to ensure the product you are purchasing is the product you require before you part with hard earned
cash.
Rubbishing a company for doing no more than their terms stated they would is not particularly helpful.
IMHO of course.
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want!!! 
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Davey D
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 11:15 AM |
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On the flip side, i had a hell of a load of crap dealing with A.F in the past. being mis-quoted, lied to, accused of making claims when i hadnt....
as soon as i had chance to go with someone else i did. on the sxoc it got where AF were getting quite slated, and lots of people moved away from
them. in the end on of the employees from AF signed upto the forum to try and win back some custom, and help with problems people were having
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whitestu
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 12:46 PM |
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I thought the 30 day thing was standard. All the insurance companies I tried told me the same thing - including AF and Footman James.
ps I looked into the legal aspect of driving to pre-sva work, and it seemed pretty clear this was not allowed. Driving the car for remedial work after
a fail is OK though.
I'd be interested to see anything to the contrary.
Stu
[Edited on 6/8/07 by whitestu]
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Peteff
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 01:17 PM |
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I have had nothing but excellent service from A. F.
Me too. I've never had to claim off them but apparently they are good in this department too. I insured from the day before SVA which would have
given me plenty of time to sort any failure issues but passed anyway and sent them my details after registration to update. They did not demand any
photos or other documentation till I asked for an agreed value which they gave as £2500 as I had already told them I estimated it cost me that to
build. If they wanted proof of an immobiliser it was because he had told them it was fitted, quite a reasonable request if they are giving a discount
for said immobiliser. I think your friend was unprepared and is now trying to put the blame somewhere else
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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saigonij
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 03:01 PM |
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would it not be cheaper to rent a trailer and take it to the SVA on a trailer, then insure it once its passed sva?
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whitestu
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 03:56 PM |
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quote:
would it not be cheaper to rent a trailer and take it to the SVA on a trailer, then insure it once its passed sva?
If you pass and get registered in time, it's cheaper to drive there. Renting a trailer and something to tow it could get expensive, particularly
if you fail a couple of times.
Stu
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 6/8/07 at 10:26 PM |
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Im a bit confused?
having never had a problem with flux
I insure my unfinished kit car with an agreed value of 8k to cover it whilst its in my garage this costs £45 for the year
then when ever I want to have work done on it or got to SVA I just phone them up a couple of days before and its £25 for the days cover on the chassis
number
NO 30 day period no this or that
one payment £25 for one days cover note?
any £25 I make get knocked off my final insurance fee ie when its road legal and the insurance costs £400 they knock all the £25's Ive paid off
the £400
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nitram38
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| posted on 7/8/07 at 04:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zxrlocost
Im a bit confused?
having never had a problem with flux
I insure my unfinished kit car with an agreed value of 8k to cover it whilst its in my garage this costs £45 for the year
then when ever I want to have work done on it or got to SVA I just phone them up a couple of days before and its £25 for the days cover on the chassis
number
NO 30 day period no this or that
one payment £25 for one days cover note?
any £25 I make get knocked off my final insurance fee ie when its road legal and the insurance costs £400 they knock all the £25's Ive paid off
the £400
I would n't mind but this was not the option offered and they only talked about full insurance.
I hope someone from AF reads this forum so that they clear up the confusion.
They either need to change their policy or train their staff to offer this option.
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02GF74
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| posted on 7/8/07 at 09:50 AM |
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I cannot fault my experience with AF so far.
I have a Land Rover insured with them and the kit car.
I was aware of the 30 day inbsurance on chassis number but when the 30 dyas epxired I recieved no noitce of cnacellation so assumed I was still
covered. When I pass my retest, I send in my reg number nbad the policy was updated and continued.
So I was very lucky or???
This 30 dya rule is grossly unfair anyway since in all likleiness the car isn't going to be driven more t han a couple of times in that period
so is moneuy for old rope; then cancellation of the involves the insurnace companies grabbving back an unfraily large, if not all, the amount of the
policy.
But remember insurance companies, like banks, are not charities.
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locoboy
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| posted on 7/8/07 at 11:20 AM |
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I have just spoken to Sureterm to insure my car and asked the relevant questions as came to light in this thread.
14 Days to get a reg no to them but can extend by another 30 at no cost just let them know.
Very helpful when setting up the policy etc etc, would recommend no problem, insured me on my chassis number too.
ATB
Locoboy
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irvined
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| posted on 7/8/07 at 02:45 PM |
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Originally insured with AF, had some admin problems with things not arriving, or not being received, but no worse than any other UK company.
As I failed my SVA, they took the cash but gave it as a discount off another policy, in the end i had enough trouble trying to get things sorted out i
just gave up and went elsewhere sadly quite a bit worse off.
Not sure if its possible, but imho your best bet is to simply cancel it after 14 days if you don't have a reg number, and get a new one when you
do.
This time round, sureterm where the cheapest and had the policy which suited me, i suppose at the end of the day if your getting a cheap policy,
something has to be sacrificed, with AF it was the flexibility with the policies and the added paperwork.
David
http://irvined.blogspot.com
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iscmatt
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| posted on 7/8/07 at 07:16 PM |
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AF
Sounds like good and bad about AF. I insured with them when my first SVA test was due two weeks ago because they were the only company I found who
would give me at least 30 days to register my car. I failed the first test but passed today. I rang them to tell them this and that I was now in the
hands of the DVLA. Their Rep told me that provided I kept them in touch with progress I should be OK. So now its down to the DVLA !
On the issue of driving to the SVA test, there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice. The law clearly states that it is illegal to drive without
registration (i.e without plates). However, it also says that it may be used in your defence that you are driving the car to or from a [SVA] test or
in connection with a test. It is unclear whether this means it is defensible to drive to a garage before an SVA test. I suspect it isn't (but I
am not a lawyer!). But if you have had a test and your failure notice advises that you need work doing that can only be done by a garage, then you
can probably use this together with evidence of the reason for driving to the garage as a defence.
The law is similar with regard to driving to have car registered at DVLA. Again it is not legal to drive without plates, but you can use the defence
that you are driving to/from the [DVLA] office to have the car registered.
The relevant law is contained in the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 Section 42.
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