nitram38
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| posted on 22/1/08 at 09:42 PM |
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Anyone using a trickshifter in a race car?
The usual arguement ensuing on atomclub.com about using a trickshifter on a bec and the advantage of using one over heel and toe with a cec.
Anyone done midcorner shifts with one?
Has it been an advantage over the same spec cars without one?
Your input appreciated.
Martin
[Edited on 22/1/2008 by nitram38]
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lsdweb
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| posted on 22/1/08 at 10:03 PM |
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Martin
Henryck (Jedi) in my class used a flatshifter (change manually but kills the engine upshift and blips on the downshift) and he's been markedly
quicker last season and he believes it's partly to do with the flatshifter. He's had numerous FTD's in the past year!!!
Wyn
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nitram38
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| posted on 22/1/08 at 10:12 PM |
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Wyn, I thought that it would be the case, but the usual suspects think that man is quicker than technology! 
That must be why F1 cars don't use traction control or startline limiters!
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Wadders
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| posted on 22/1/08 at 10:28 PM |
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Can only offer a before and after perspective,with no actual timed comparisons other than drag race times which did improve slightly.
Upshifts are smoother and feel marginally quicker. downshifting with autoblip is a revelation, especially when late/hard braking, and dropping several
cogs at the same time. The thing does miss gears and give an unsmooth change very occasionally, but then so did i when i was in charge.
On the whole a big thumbs up from me.
Al.
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Kaspa
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 07:58 AM |
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we are using a electronic flat shift in the clubby race car in the Avatar, with a Quaife sequential box, and yes its great, and has dropped an average
of 2 secs a lap on most circuits we run on,
and yes you can upshift mid corner with out unsetling the car, my average change time aproxx 60-70- mill sec and the cut and re ramp on, is so smooth
that the car dosnt feel the torque interuption at all, we run a 6 speed with a 1-1 top so i'm constantly changing up just after the apex and it
frightens the daylights out of others when you do it on the out side of them.
best dollar yould spend
cheers Kaspa
[Edited on 1/2/08 by Kaspa]
understeer= when you hit the wall front first
oversteer=when you hit the wall back first
HP= how fast you hit the wall
Torque= how far the wall moves when you hit it
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nitram38
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 08:47 AM |
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Cheers for that Kaspa!
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lsdweb
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 01:11 PM |
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Have a look at Henryk's comments on the SBD site - here
Wyn
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nitram38
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 07:02 PM |
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Cheers for that Wyn.
You should see this thread here
It just started by me saying I was fitting a trickshifter to my car.
You should read some of the comments!
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Kaspa
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 09:54 PM |
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Nitram , mate your right about one eyed masses, hey ive never driven a bike engined car, and have never used a sequential before, but what i can tell
you is the brain and feet can only work so fast, an expert driver in a manual could achieve possibly a .25 of a sec change, ok so do some math, say 10
up shifts per lap that 2 1/4 secs he spends changing gear, with the flat shift , upshifts can be done in around 60 mili sec so you see the benifit,
the other advantages, once set right, less wear and tare on drive line, so much easier for driver, less physical effort,, once moble your left foot
sits on rest for braking.
if i could posibly afford to duplicate the set up in my new car i would with out hesitation , but alas funds wont quite go that far, pity
one other thing , the set up we use utilises a strain gauge fitted to the gear lever for the activation trigger, and the Haltech E11 V2 , ECU dose the
rest.
hope that helps
Kaspa
understeer= when you hit the wall front first
oversteer=when you hit the wall back first
HP= how fast you hit the wall
Torque= how far the wall moves when you hit it
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nitram38
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 10:12 PM |
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Kaspa, I already have the trickshifter with the auto blip so I an going with that.
I think that these driving "pureists" think that if you can't heel and toe, you can't be a "real" driver.
I have raced cars before and I know that although not a perfect way to take a corner (racing line) during a race you take different lines when you
are side by side or defending etc.
These "pureists" think that all you do is drive these lines.
This tells me that they haven't raced wheel to wheel before and that sometimes you need to change gear mid corner.
Something that is more difficult in a CEC as it nearly always ends in a spin.
I am not planning to do any races, but I would love to see what a bec versus atom timed lap would turn up. I am not sure about their 300 atom
(supercharged) but the MKI version with 1800 engine might be beatable.
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Kaspa
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| posted on 2/2/08 at 12:06 AM |
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Martin, do you have a link to the Trickshifter your using, as i have no idea how they are configured, so its a bit difficult to compare to our
electronic flat shift set up,
one of my mates in our class, is running a Honda powered Juno with a sequential FTR box, and he is that impressed with our set up he is going to fit
one to the Juno,
cheers kaspa
understeer= when you hit the wall front first
oversteer=when you hit the wall back first
HP= how fast you hit the wall
Torque= how far the wall moves when you hit it
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nitram38
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| posted on 2/2/08 at 09:02 AM |
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Pretty easy really www.trickshifter.com
It doesn't tell you much about setting it up but it might help.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 2/2/08 at 10:22 AM |
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I have just fitted the above to my car, easy install, not tested yet though.
I do have a bench line to test it against lap time wise but things need to change a little weather wise before it can be tested "like for
like"
As for set up, there is none relay, idle speed when you fit the "auto blip" and the possibility of 1/4 of a turn on the shift rod sensor,
that's it.
Next event ? Two Aerial Atoms entered, both S/C versions, don't expect to get near them but then again I shouldn't with a whopping
893cc's ?
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nitram38
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| posted on 2/2/08 at 10:33 AM |
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The trouble with going against these cars is not a true comparison test because it depends a lot on the driver.
The only way is to get a good driver to compare both on a timed lap.
I am looking forward to using my trickshifter when the car is complete.
I have installed the actuator arm and the shift cable.
I just need to weld an arm on my paddleshift and mount the other end of the cable to check out the gearchange etc.
I am a long way off testing the system out.
My only concern is fitting the autoblip, but I am sure that once I have read the instructions, it will be straight forward.
Just re-read this, what a lot of "I's"
[Edited on 2/2/2008 by nitram38]
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 2/2/08 at 12:38 PM |
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The auto blip looked a bit of a job to fit but with the air box off it went on easy, my throttle return spring was a bit strong for it so i still need
to find a softer one.
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lsdweb
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| posted on 2/2/08 at 12:51 PM |
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That Atom forum looks like a good one to avoid!
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nitram38
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| posted on 2/2/08 at 12:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by lsdweb
That Atom forum looks like a good one to avoid!
No. I like winding them up!
Just shows what sort of people buy atoms. Too much money and not enough common sense!
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Kaspa
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| posted on 2/2/08 at 07:55 PM |
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Marty, I just had a look at the Trickshifter site, and that thing is virtualy the same as my setup the only real diferance is my strain gauge is on
the gear lever and not on the actuating rod.
we dont have the throttle blip function and i realy dont think you need it, i certainly dont have any probs with clutchless down shifts at all.
they are very easy to set up using a simple tecnique
best on the track [of course] full throttle shift up, relax your body and if your head bobs fowared, speed up cut time , if it bobs backwards slow
down cut time. when you can change gear without your head moving you've got it spot on. it will take a we bit of fiddiling to get it right , but
when you do you will be amazed how easy the car will be to drive, and youll be alot more relaxed in the seat.
the hardest part is training yourself to leave your left foot on the rest. youll see what i mean when you start .[old habits die hard]
good luck and let us no how you get on.
cheers Kaspa
[Edited on 2/2/08 by Kaspa]
understeer= when you hit the wall front first
oversteer=when you hit the wall back first
HP= how fast you hit the wall
Torque= how far the wall moves when you hit it
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nitram38
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| posted on 2/2/08 at 11:58 PM |
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I am way of finishing the car so don't hold your breath Kaspa!
Thanks for the advice, all the same
I drive an auto for my tintop (The F1-2 is manual) so I am used to giving my left foot a rest.
I have also driven an interesting Merc A class that had a clutchless manual shift.
[Edited on 3/2/2008 by nitram38]
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 10/2/08 at 04:06 PM |
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Just been out for a test setup blast.
Soon got cocky with it, the only thing you notice when upshifting is a change in revs, i cant possibly see how it could do anything but reduce lap
times.
Downshifts, take a bit of getting used to, I'm used to right foot braking and bliping throttle for clutchless down shifts, this kit works fine,
quicker than me down the gears for sure, the harder I braked the better it seemed to work as in coming down from 6th to 1st whilst hard on the
brakes.
Excellent piece of kit.
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