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Author: Subject: 1st Track Day of Year and Serious Misfire?
Crazy Eddie

posted on 25/1/08 at 06:18 PM Reply With Quote
1st Track Day of Year and Serious Misfire?

Well went to Oulton Today for first one of the year and although I still had a great day (and met a couple of faces from here ) the car did develop a quite serious misfire by the end of the day.

In the morning it was present but by the afternoon it was so bad I didn't dare drive it any more

What should I look at?

Car is 893 Blade and has been stood for maybe a couple of months. Plugs and leads in good condition any ideas would be welcome because I had this before back in August and replaced my carbs which had cured it up till now so maybe it didn't cure just hid?

As always any help is much appreciated
Cheers
Eddie





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Phil.J

posted on 25/1/08 at 06:23 PM Reply With Quote
I'd start by taking the carbs. off and cleaning them out, bike carbs always seem susceptible to being left with fuel still in them.
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higgsti

posted on 25/1/08 at 06:33 PM Reply With Quote
try running some petrol injector cleaner through the carbs first b4 taking them off i never had a problem with my megablade doing this .check and clean earths .take off plug caps and spray with wd incase theres any damp same with all leads .also check battery level this did happen to me once .any more info pm me on wscc
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Hellfire

posted on 25/1/08 at 06:54 PM Reply With Quote
Try the fuel pump. Blade fuel pumps can be very temperamental.

Phil






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Crazy Eddie

posted on 25/1/08 at 07:05 PM Reply With Quote
Cheers guys,
I would love it to be something easy because I spent ages cleaning the last set of carbs before finally replacing them. Only for it to be doing it again

Fuel pump is interesting because I have just had that same conversation with Chris over at the BEC center and he has a couple lying around so hopefully can try it and see. Fingures crossed!





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Jon Ison

posted on 25/1/08 at 07:29 PM Reply With Quote
Ive had a couple of Blade pumps that stop and start on me for no apparent reason.
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Howlor

posted on 25/1/08 at 07:49 PM Reply With Quote
I would also try some new good quality plugs. I bought some from a bike shop I think they were NGK but never ran as well as the set from Honda. It developed a serious misfire then cylinder 3 just stopped altogether.

New set of plugs from Honda and never had another problem.

Steve






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Hellfire

posted on 25/1/08 at 09:26 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Howlor
I would also try some new good quality plugs. I bought some from a bike shop I think they were NGK but never ran as well as the set from Honda. It developed a serious misfire then cylinder 3 just stopped altogether.

New set of plugs from Honda and never had another problem.

Steve


Honda plugs are made by NGK.

Also - you may want to keep your eye on the Voltage Regulator - they also are an achilles heel on a blade. Cheapest first - fuel pump! If it does turn out not to be the pump see if you can lay your hands on a 250 Superdream V.R. they are finned to disippate heat better.

Where is your current V.R. located?

Steve

[Edited on 25-1-08 by Hellfire]






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Jubal

posted on 25/1/08 at 09:42 PM Reply With Quote
Nice to meet you today Eddie. Shame I am probably LB's least technical member but I hope you get it sorted. At least my theory of the fuel pump is one shared by others!

I see you're at Oulton next month too, I'll hopefully see you there

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bigrich

posted on 25/1/08 at 10:02 PM Reply With Quote
had the same problem at oulton park in my old blade car and that was a fuel pressure fault making it run lean under load

Rich







A pint for the gent and a white wine/fruit based drink for the lady. Those are the rules

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Crazy Eddie

posted on 26/1/08 at 09:59 AM Reply With Quote
Here is pic of where regulator is (top left of pic) I had one blow when I first started driving the car and so fitted a finned one and the PC fan you see above it which keeps the temps right down:


Hi Jubal yeah good to put a face to the name. I will be there next month so just need to sort this little niggle out because otherwise the car is going great

Cheers
Eddie





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Crazy Eddie

posted on 26/1/08 at 04:05 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Have your carbs been rejetted Eddie?

Hi Chris,
Yes mate they have. Had the car since April last year and changed things like that when I first bought it because it didn't run right at all. 124 main jets IIRC does that sound right? Also managed to see from previous owner's threads that it may have a VFR Honda fuel pump not Fireblade so this might account for issues at high revs? What do ya think?





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Crazy Eddie

posted on 26/1/08 at 05:26 PM Reply With Quote
Ok (this will show my lack of knowledge )
Right bought some new plugs and was about to fit them so started removing the old (well not that old) ones and noticed that all were fine except cylinder 3 which was dark.

This is the embarassing bit:
I think this means that it is a bit rich on cylinder 3?
Also if that is correct then can you change the A/F mixture just on 3 ie through carbs and so is this not a feul pump issue?
Thanks
Eddie





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timcrasher

posted on 26/1/08 at 06:18 PM Reply With Quote
Hi, Eddie
It is worth checking that the vacum take off points on the inlet ports are blanked off correctly. Carb Blade engines have always had a problem with No:3 cylinder fouling plugs.
The little rubber blanking plugs, removed when balancing the carbs, become loose fitting over time. It is always number 3 that falls off, leading to the problem you describe.
Hope this helps
Tim

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Crazy Eddie

posted on 26/1/08 at 07:36 PM Reply With Quote
Cheers for thought Tim.
Unless I'm looking at the wrong bit (possibly ) my vacuum take off points are srews and not caps so I have checked and they are all tight.

One bit of information that has come to light is that when I pulled into the pits once the missfire was getting worse, I remember a freind of mine (also there in an RX-7) mentioned that the HT lead going into the coil seamed loose and pushed it into place. From memory and after looking at the plugs today I believe it was the No 3 take off from the coil.

With this new info to light would it be fair to think that somehow the HT lead had worked loose (maybe after taking the bonnet off to show Jurbal - your fault mate ) and therefor produced a weak spark causing missfire and plug to foul up?
If that did happen then even though we found the lead was loose by this time the plug would already be fouled and so the missfire would still occur?

Is my little theory plauseable or is this wishful thinking?
Cheers
Eddie





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ChrisGamlin

posted on 26/1/08 at 09:13 PM Reply With Quote
If I remember correctly, on the underside of inlet port of No3 there's a small vacuum take-off pipe which is used to shut the fuel off when the engine is stopped. Usually in a car install you're not using this fuel shut-off valve so if this hole isn't blocked off it will allow air to bypass the carb and muck up the fuelling on that cylinder, which will cause running problems.

Chris






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ChrisGamlin

posted on 26/1/08 at 09:15 PM Reply With Quote
A loose plug lead could cause issues as well yes. It might run OK when stationary blipping it in the pits etc but could start breaking down when the engine is under load.






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Crazy Eddie

posted on 27/1/08 at 12:38 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
A loose plug lead could cause issues as well yes. It might run OK when stationary blipping it in the pits etc but could start breaking down when the engine is under load.

Well would the loose lead cause the black sooty build up on the plug in No 3 then Chris?
Cheers
Eddie





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Crazy Eddie

posted on 27/1/08 at 02:28 PM Reply With Quote
Ok new plugs in all leads checked and it still misses at high reves even from reasonably cold (I always let temp get up before going over 8000rpm) so does this imply fueling?
Cheers
Eddie





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ChrisGamlin

posted on 27/1/08 at 06:06 PM Reply With Quote
Hi Eddie

A duff lead could cause the blackened plug because there would be fuel going in that wouldnt be burning every cycle, so when it did ignite it would be a rich mixture.

You could try temporarily swapping the coilpacks around and see if the problem followed.






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Crazy Eddie

posted on 27/1/08 at 06:17 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Hi Eddie

A duff lead could cause the blackened plug because there would be fuel going in that wouldnt be burning every cycle, so when it did ignite it would be a rich mixture.

You could try temporarily swapping the coilpacks around and see if the problem followed.

Well Chris what I'm thinking (and it is straining me ) is that the fouled plug was caused by the HT lead not being in fully because went out for a drive today and checked plugs again and all fine.

Missfire still there though as mentioned in previous post so new fuel pump tomorrow and see if that sorts it!
Cheers
Eddie





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ChrisGamlin

posted on 27/1/08 at 07:42 PM Reply With Quote
Have you checked for that air bleed under the carbs that I mentioned above?






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Crazy Eddie

posted on 27/1/08 at 08:06 PM Reply With Quote
Looked for it but couldn't find anything that looked like you mentioned
I'm thinking that I possible had 2 issues at once which made the missfire worse.
Fuel pump and knocking the HT lead out of the coil.

I figure if I change one thing at a time then all will become clear





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Crazy Eddie

posted on 28/1/08 at 01:10 PM Reply With Quote
Ok for anyone that comes accross this problem with their car it turned out it was the fuel pump

Flow rate seemed fine at power on but I guess that would explain why the car ran ok at lower revs. Then I guess it couldn't keep up at the higher revs.

Replaced with Fireblade pump and all sorted. Rev bashing Blade back again!





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ChrisGamlin

posted on 28/1/08 at 10:55 PM Reply With Quote
Glad you got it sorted






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