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Author: Subject: 2.2 pinto engine builders?
lid0n

posted on 2/4/08 at 07:39 AM Reply With Quote
2.2 pinto engine builders?

anybody no of any? had this done? prices?
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ditchlewis

posted on 2/4/08 at 07:48 AM Reply With Quote
2.1 is common and i have one fitted. the Yanks used to have a 2.3 pinto in production in standard cars such as the pinto, some 1970's and 80's mustangs. some were even turbocharged.

i have seen articles about tuned 2.3's before, but not 2.2.

could be wrong though, i have been in the past

costs, depends on how much work you do youself.

Vulcan engineering charge £3500K for a full engine

cheaper to buy a hybussa or zzr14 engine only wish i'd known that before i bought mine

ditch

[Edited on 2/4/08 by ditchlewis]

[Edited on 2/4/08 by ditchlewis]

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Benzine

posted on 2/4/08 at 07:57 AM Reply With Quote
2.2 has been done. David Walker used to do them I think? There's some info on some of the threads if you search for "2.2 pinto"

[Edited on 2/4/08 by Benzine]

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timf

posted on 2/4/08 at 08:35 AM Reply With Quote
2.2 and 2.4 conversions are possible for the pinto but always require the need for a re-stroked crank. the 2.2 and 2.4 were largely done using holbay steel cranks you can get the steel cranks from the likes of burtons (farndon) but they are very expensive (£2000 approx) for what will not give the best power increases for £ spent.





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mookaloid

posted on 2/4/08 at 08:40 AM Reply With Quote
2.2 conversion uses an offset ground crank and I think Fiesta diesel conrods are used with machined pistons. it's expensive and not worth the gain - probably only worth about 10-15 BHP You will get more torque but do you really need it in a seven type car?

You can get approaching 190 BHP out of a 2.0 litre without too much trouble which makes a car nearly as fast say a blade engined car.

This can be achieved with standard pistons and rods if you start with an injection engine. Costs will be about a grand if you know who to got to for the work.

I know this cos I did it

Cheers

Mark





"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."


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ditchlewis

posted on 2/4/08 at 08:42 AM Reply With Quote
I stand corrected. the US pinto has a resemblance to a UK pinto but is taller and heavier

when i wear out or blow up my 2.1 (165bhp Spec) i will go 2.2

good thread there lads, many thanks

ditch

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DarrenW

posted on 2/4/08 at 09:02 AM Reply With Quote
Its worth doing a search. I looked into it some time ago and got a great reply from Dave.

I concluded it would a lot of cash and getting over 200bhp would take some careful setting up, cam choice, fuelling etc. You can do it on a budget but you take risks of buying the wrong bits. Get a specialist to do it and you pay for the priviledge. I found a guy in Birmingham who could provide all the bottom end bits for not a lot of cash (he is knwn in the stock car world) but i was put off that the prices were maybe too cheap and was it asking for trouble - then realised that actually the machining is only part of the problem - its the good breathing etc that costs most of the cash and there are no short cuts - get it wrong and you might as well have stuck with 2.0 or 2.1. Get it right though and you will have a seriously good motor and a lightweight wallet.

As Mark says - his was a carefully built 2 litre and was very fit in a 7. I also know Andy D went the 2.1 route by the same engine builder and has fun with cars that should be faster on the trackdays. Both seem to have more cash spent on good breathing, fuelling and careful engine assembly rather than exotic parts and machining.

Obviously there is a lot more to a fast car than just a fast engine. I think Mark and Andy scored by careful research, good development over time and spending cash where it mattered - not just on the engine but also the drivetrain and honing their driving skills with plenty of competition or track time.



Alistair at AMAC engineering or Dave at Newark Race Engines (also mentioned when i was at Boggs) spoke the most sense when i was researching.






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mcerd1

posted on 2/4/08 at 09:04 AM Reply With Quote
your looking at a long stroke pinto for 2.2
could be standard bore with a very long stroke or oversized bores with a sligtly longer stroke

you can get steel billet cranks with strokes up to 88mm (burtons sell them for ~£1400, to suit cossie flywheels)

more info here: http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/PINTO.htm

but I think you could be thinking of the conversion that uses a standard crank, offset ground to increase the stroke and suit the 1.6 diesel con rods, which have been mod'd to suit 2.8 V6 pistons
(the des hammil book has details of this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Build-Power-Pinto-Engines-Speedpro/dp/1903706785/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207126000&sr=8-1 )


but the question is - why ??

it's a hell of alot of work for not much gain, and if you can't do the work yourself it will cost you - you could probibly buy and fit a duratec for less

to give you an idea:

standard 2.0 EFI pinto from donor (205 block, unleaded head) - £Free

clean inside, bore to 93mm, grind crank, top pistons, ballance bottom end, surfacse head + block {CR 11.5:1} , 3 angle valve seats, bronze valve guides, new std. valves, gaskets and bearings, new clutch, dummy build (+new water pump)
- £1100

fully build / assemble the engine - £Free (DIY)

...and a 2.2 is more work



[Damm, I'm slow at this typing ]

ps - I know that I won't see much gain without doing more to the head - but thats in the pipeline, after the car is on the road

[Edited on 2/4/08 by mcerd1]

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ditchlewis

posted on 2/4/08 at 09:48 AM Reply With Quote
On reflection, i think that 2.2 would be of little benifit over the 2.1 i already have.

I have the same head on my engine that Vulcan use on their racing engines. the main areas for future development are the fuel supply and the exhaust system to help it breath better.

i have twin 45's but do you think that throttle bodies and fuel injection would improve the breathing? i know that they could be programmed to deliver the correct ammounts at the correct time.

the MK exhaust i have required work before i fitted it and i'm not totally convinced that it is not causing a restriction to at least one of the cylinders.

but with the torque and a reasonable amount of power the effects of a 2.1 pinto in a seven are dramatic.

i would prehaps be better off fettaling the gear box, diff and fly wheel.

since i only want to use this car as a road car and occasional track day car there is no point building a high reving monster.

PLUS SWMBO would be suspicious as to where the monies going. i started the car before i met her and she is not aware of the full cost of the car

ditch

[Edited on 2/4/08 by ditchlewis]

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DarrenW

posted on 2/4/08 at 10:17 AM Reply With Quote
I 'only' have 120bhp at wheels and mine is quick. Better cam would be final mod to engine (FR32 is too mild).
After that, as you say, i feel gearbox, diff and tyres, and of course optimising suspension set up would be better areas to develop. Then its down to driver improvements.

The big problem when you build your car is that you always know there are bits you could have done better and areas to tweek. Trick is knowing when to stop. Mine is already way better than my driving skill as it is. The days it feels slow is the day to think about stage 2.






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John.Taylor

posted on 2/4/08 at 06:20 PM Reply With Quote
I stripped my 120k mile 205 efi pinto engine and found bore ware, blocked cam spray bar, worn valve guides and a dead cam.

I took it to an engine builder in Burnley who talked me out of a full 2.1 rebuild because of the cost v benefit. He does loads of pinto's for grass tracks, etc, and even they won't stump up the money for a full 2.1

I had the engine acid dipped to clean all the water/oil ways, the bores resurfaced, new pistons with new rings, resurfaced block and head, full Kent FR32 cam kit and vernier, new valves, guides, bearings, bolts, water pump, all new alloy serpentine pulleys, a new clutch, the flywheel lightened, then had it reassembled and painted red. Cost me £1,200.00 but that would have risen to nearer £2k for a budget 2.1 for an extra 10bhp or so!

[Edited on 2/4/08 by John.Taylor]






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david walker

posted on 5/4/08 at 03:28 PM Reply With Quote
No-one today uses Pintos for grasstrack racing.

To take a 2.0 litre Pinto to 2.1 for £800 - ridiculous!





Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277

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